Scottish Sprint & Hillclimb Calendar

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Scotty C
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Re: Scottish Sprint & Hillclimb Calendar

Post by Scotty C » Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:47 am

alicrozier wrote:
Mikie711 wrote: As for the 2-11 no it isn't. I checked before blowing a load of money on something I couldn't use. Not enough units made................yet.
Yes Mike, I see the Scottish regs say '...full production models...' and MSA defines that as '...produced in quantities of not less than 1000 per annum...'.
I don't know how many 2-11's are produced a year. :?:

Seems a bit harsh but a standard 2-11 would wipe the floor with pretty much anything. I think the class was designed to encourage standard Porsche, Ferrari, Lotus, TVR etc. In the past it's been been a mix of some fairly standard road cars (like myself) and classic racers (Matt Gordon, Stan Bernard with the Porsches etc.) and the odd Ginetta, VX220, TVR. As it stands I think an early Elise or Exige (340R wouldn't be eligible as not produced in enough numbers) with K series engine, maybe bigger capacity, with a turbo and/or supercharger is going to be the otimum...as Graeme Bremner has proved with his Exige.

I'm sure a few other notable past and present entries can't have been produced in those numbers though... :twisted:
They have made 200 x 2-11 to date (approx 18 months) do they make 1000 Ginetta's a year? What class would the 2-11 be in then?

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Re: Scottish Sprint & Hillclimb Calendar

Post by alicrozier » Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:30 am

Scotty C wrote:
They have made 200 x 2-11 to date (approx 18 months) do they make 1000 Ginetta's a year? What class would the 2-11 be in then?

Scotty C
Err, probably not for the Ginetta's. Kinda my point.

So you would be in Road Sports cars with the Caterhams etc. Big engine class so 270+bhp Caterhams and 350bhp Dax...
Would be a challenge...you'd have them in the wet though. :D
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Scotty C
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Re: Scottish Sprint & Hillclimb Calendar

Post by Scotty C » Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:36 am

and they wonder why people just turn up and race sheds????

So if you have a Exige like yours that they only made 50 total, how does that make it in?
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Re: Scottish Sprint & Hillclimb Calendar

Post by Shug » Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:41 am

It's an Exige though - the base car sold more than 1000 a year, the cup is just a version of that. Lotus type number is the same.

You'd be going pretty bloody far to argue the 2-11 as an edition of the Elise (basically, as Lotus have given it a different type number)

I understand the annoyance, but TBH, I agree with this one. A custom lightweight track car with good aero, track-adjustable TC and ABS (designed and built by people who know what they are doing and have an R&D budget, unlike the garage builder) like the 2-11 would dominate the class and kill it.
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Re: Scottish Sprint & Hillclimb Calendar

Post by tuscan_thunder » Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:28 pm

alicrozier wrote:
Scotty C wrote:
They have made 200 x 2-11 to date (approx 18 months) do they make 1000 Ginetta's a year? What class would the 2-11 be in then?

Scotty C
Err, probably not for the Ginetta's. Kinda my point.
I believe there is an element of discretion :wink: which lies with the championship organisers so might be worth a phonecall or two just to see the lie of the land.

That said, it would be rather galling to prepare to race, say a 2-11, only to turn up and be told it's verboten.

With due respect, I don't think the 2-11 would get near the Caterhams (Messrs Nicol & Nicol) or the Dax even in the wet and if it did, there'd still be the the Scoob/Evo battle out in front in the wet taking FRC.

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Re: Scottish Sprint & Hillclimb Calendar

Post by fd » Wed Nov 26, 2008 1:18 pm

2-11 is too heavy, doesn't have enough power and probably can't fit sticky enough tyres to complete with the likes of the A6 mob (which would be the next logical place after A8 I guess ?) . . . no matter how you look at it the mutch dax or the nicols caterham or the loomes westy are all at probably 600bph/ton, have TC, use super soft ACB-10's (which are still the tyre of choice until someone bans them) and very committed drivers . . . I just cannot believe that a 2-11 would get even close.

Mr Bremner has chosen the class he's running in very carefully . . . and all credit to him, it's much more difficult to win anything in many of the other classes because the competition is much closer and the bar is higher when it comes to scoring max points . . . but that's part of the sport . . . in many ways he's setting his own targets and can control the points he wins in a much more predictable way . . . some serious competition in that class would shake things up a lot . . .

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Re: Scottish Sprint & Hillclimb Calendar

Post by Scotty C » Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:33 pm

Shug wrote:It's an Exige though - the base car sold more than 1000 a year, the cup is just a version of that. Lotus type number is the same.

You'd be going pretty bloody far to argue the 2-11 as an edition of the Elise (basically, as Lotus have given it a different type number)

I understand the annoyance, but TBH, I agree with this one. A custom lightweight track car with good aero, track-adjustable TC and ABS (designed and built by people who know what they are doing and have an R&D budget, unlike the garage builder) like the 2-11 would dominate the class and kill it.
A so the toy of choice would be a S2 exige with + 300 BHP, ABS, traction and launch control. Could you do what they are doing in the states and turbo it to get 420 BHP? Would it still be in the same class as the S1 exige with the TT k series????
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Re: Scottish Sprint & Hillclimb Calendar

Post by Mikie711 » Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:52 pm

Absolutely nothing stopping you, because there are more than 1000 units a year built and as long as you retain the original engine block then you can basically do what you want as long as it runs on pump fuel and sequential gearboxes are a no no in A8.
I'm waiting to see what happens to A8 after 2010, or more specifically the Elise after 2010. If all remains the same I will be on the hunt for a 'yota powered donor car to turbocharge.
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Re: Scottish Sprint & Hillclimb Calendar

Post by Shug » Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:07 pm

Scotty C wrote:
Shug wrote:It's an Exige though - the base car sold more than 1000 a year, the cup is just a version of that. Lotus type number is the same.

You'd be going pretty bloody far to argue the 2-11 as an edition of the Elise (basically, as Lotus have given it a different type number)

I understand the annoyance, but TBH, I agree with this one. A custom lightweight track car with good aero, track-adjustable TC and ABS (designed and built by people who know what they are doing and have an R&D budget, unlike the garage builder) like the 2-11 would dominate the class and kill it.
A so the toy of choice would be a S2 exige with + 300 BHP, ABS, traction and launch control. Could you do what they are doing in the states and turbo it to get 420 BHP? Would it still be in the same class as the S1 exige with the TT k series????
Yes. Nobody said the rules made any sense... I'm not in favour of the TT Exige being eligable either, FWIW.

(Ronin can't get a gearbox to last under that power anyway, ATM and I'll bet he's not as hard on it as you'd have to be in racing :mrgreen: )
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Re: Scottish Sprint & Hillclimb Calendar

Post by tut » Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:13 pm

FD has summed it up in a nutshell. Any form of the Elise family, 2-11 downwards has no chance of an outright win in any other Class than A8.

Been there, seen it, done it, and although that was in a N/A Honda'd Elise, and Scotty would be faster in his car, he could not match the A4-A6 kit cars, Caterhams and Westys, with 280hp and <500kgs, plus drivers that know the circuits backwards after many years in the Championship.

I think that I would have pipped Graeme Bremner in 2007 and 2008 in N3, as he was chasing mine and Ali's times in slower cars, as would Scotty when he got some practice in on circuits that he had not done before.

Remember though that most of these Sprint circuits are Go Cart track type ones. KH is not in the Sprint Championship anymore, but when I did the ADMC Fun Day there last year which was basically for the Scottish Championship cars, there was nothing in it against cars that had been two secs quicker than me in 2005. A proper race circuit and one that I know backwards (shut up McApe....)

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Re: Scottish Sprint & Hillclimb Calendar

Post by Andy G » Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:54 pm

tut wrote:A proper race circuit and one that I know backwards (shut up McApe....)

tut
is that a reference to how many time you've spun there Tut ? :damnfunny
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Re: Scottish Sprint & Hillclimb Calendar

Post by Victor Meldrew » Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:14 am

If I have read things right... if to be eligible in A8 you need over 1000 units per year made... then the S1 Exige never sold that many in any one year... according to the little lotus book I have its closer to 500+. So his car is under the numbers so a 211 has to be eligible ot the regulation that prevents it being eligable would also prevent the S1 Exige being eligable.....

Get your finger out and get in there ya puf..
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Re: Scottish Sprint & Hillclimb Calendar

Post by Mikie711 » Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:00 am

Victor Meldrew wrote:If I have read things right... if to be eligible in A8 you need over 1000 units per year made... then the S1 Exige never sold that many in any one year... according to the little lotus book I have its closer to 500+. So his car is under the numbers so a 211 has to be eligible ot the regulation that prevents it being eligable would also prevent the S1 Exige being eligable.....

Get your finger out and get in there ya puf..
Hate to disagree but Graeme had a letter from lotus giving the number of Exige's built to prove it's elidgibility
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Re: Scottish Sprint & Hillclimb Calendar

Post by Victor Meldrew » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:25 am

Mikie711 wrote:
Victor Meldrew wrote:If I have read things right... if to be eligible in A8 you need over 1000 units per year made... then the S1 Exige never sold that many in any one year... according to the little lotus book I have its closer to 500+. So his car is under the numbers so a 211 has to be eligible ot the regulation that prevents it being eligable would also prevent the S1 Exige being eligable.....

Get your finger out and get in there ya puf..
Hate to disagree but Graeme had a letter from lotus giving the number of Exige's built to prove it's elidgibility
It does say that there were around 515 built in more than one of the books. Dont know where the figures come from but in a published book written about the Elise Exige variants you would assume they get there info from Lotus directly.. will trawl online as I think it is posted in several places..


Just found some info on Google.. I think there were only 601 factory S1 Exige road cars built. No idea how many Motorsport varients there were.
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Re: Scottish Sprint & Hillclimb Calendar

Post by mac » Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:19 am

But all have the product number of 111 - elise variant, so perhaps that's why they are eligible?
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