The K-series engine is sh*t. True Story.

[rossybee]

(no fancy cams)If you want a K that runs much beyond 150bhp on a "reliable" basis, I think you have to accept that it then becomes a light racing / sprinting engine and MUST be regularly inspected and overhauled accordingly. That probably means pulling it apart every year or after a handful of trackdays. And even then, you may have to accept that it's going to fail randomly from time to time. Just like race engines do...

I'd say this isn't entirely true.....

Limiting revs can have a huge bearing on lifespan of a K. The original Minister R500 K in 2000 went to 9200rpm, and was recommended to be "refreshed" every 3k miles with track use, this was later reduced to 8600rpm for longevity. My Minister R400 K went to 8k, produced only 30 horses less (200) and had no such issues. The subsequent owner had it refreshed at circa 30k, and even then it was a case of preventative maintenance thrown in with some titivation

[rossybee]

To add - both VHPD

[campbell]

Absolutely fair enough. What does "refreshed" entail?

I have a std limiter btw

[campbell]

To add - both VHPD

And both in the front, not the middle...

[rossybee]

In this context, full rebuild at Minister, at no inconsiderable expense.

Front/mid, doesn't make a difference I think, but transverse as opposed to longitudinal orientation does, one of the theories behind the infamous "k-click" found on high-end caterhams...most possibly due to zorst routing.

Both 7s mentioned above are dry-dumped.

[rossybee]

What's a standard limited btw? 7200?

My first Caterham was a 1600 K with supersport kit (cams and ecu for 135bhp) which went to 7600, sounded sweet up there

[campbell]

7200

[fd]

(no fancy cams)If you want a K that runs much beyond 150bhp on a "reliable" basis, I think you have to accept that it then becomes a light racing / sprinting engine and MUST be regularly inspected and overhauled accordingly. That probably means pulling it apart every year or after a handful of trackdays. And even then, you may have to accept that it's going to fail randomly from time to time. Just like race engines do...

I'd say this isn't entirely true.....

Limiting revs can have a huge bearing on lifespan of a K. The original Minister R500 K in 2000 went to 9200rpm, and was recommended to be "refreshed" every 3k miles with track use, this was later reduced to 8600rpm for longevity. My Minister R400 K went to 8k, produced only 30 horses less (200) and had no such issues. The subsequent owner had it refreshed at circa 30k, and even then it was a case of preventative maintenance thrown in with some titivation

I know namby pamby servicing is not needed either . . . I've run a stock bottom end with an MS2 head and 165+bhp and 8000limiter for >70K miles with nothing more than oil changes . . . it's a shopping car engine, and so far away from being special (and in need of race engine like servicing) it's not funny . . . if it were a race car engine it would be the same weight and size but would produce 600+bhp and have 8 cylinders . . .

[campbell]

Not clear on namby pamby ref, but some fine testimonials all the same.

Here's to another 80k miles then!

[pshanks76]

I'm sure many of you may have read this already, but here is a (very) detailed article on the virtues of the K series: http://www.sandsmuseum.com/cars/elise/t ... kingk.html

Being a K series owner I hope he's right

[tut]

Used as it should be, I reckon the K was a fine engine for the original 118hp Elise S1. Problem was, and I was the first one to start it, we started to tune and upgrade it.

That would have probably be fine sticking to road runs, but when you get down to miningy trackdays and racing it put too much strain on it. Once a good HG was fitted it was pretty reliable.

tut

[fd]

Namby Pamby : CF > "That probably means pulling it apart every year or after a handful of trackdays"

[pshanks76]

Once a good HG was fitted it was pretty reliable.

Do you have recommendations on which are good HG's?

I'm sure I'll need one at some point

P.

[tut]

The latest standard one that Lotus brought out is now generally regarded as the best bet.

tut

[robin]

Tut - I am not aware of Lotus bringing out anything for the K-series, though of course I haven't been paying attention either!

There are a whole bunch of different head gasket designs out there. I think that some might be better than others, especially for any given engine one might prove more reliable than another, but I don't believe the gasket itself is really the problem, just the symptom. The only way to make a badly behaved K right again is to start from scratch and correct all the different faults in a single go (i.e. the stiffer oil rail, getting the block vs liner heights right, getting the cooling system right, getting a head without any casting flaws, weak spots in the cooling/oil gantries, getting a head that hasn't already suffered from too much abuse, probably countless more things ...). Even then you can get the liners sinking and flaws in the head appearing that you couldn't have known would happen.

Much as I love the rattly old K in the Elise, it cannot be said to be reliable across the estate of cars, even if any one example has 200K miles on it without failure there are plenty of examples of standard engines failing, being repaired, failing again in short order ... so it's just not practical for people who have no choice but to hand it over to garage and trust them to fix it properly.

Cheers,
Robin