Car not starting

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Rich H
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Re: Car not starting

Post by Rich H » Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:18 am

Interesting that mine is different, it has a cobra alarm with the certificate in the owners manual. It would be nice if the dongle worked without the electric on but it doesn't do anything, it has to be on a seperate keyring for that reason. I'm also pretty sure the anti tamper case is in place too. I'll check later.

No help to you Nizzy, sorry, but MFRU would be a good place to start though I suspect from what Robin is saying as your FP is not running.
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fd
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Re: Car not starting

Post by fd » Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:46 pm

What Nizzy is saying is the fuel pump isn't running . . .

So either the pump is dead or it's not got a supply.

That could be the MFRU or it could be the old fave immobiliser relay/connector failure, or a wiring fault, or . . ., or . . .

First thing I'd do would be to see if the pump is getting power, as close to the pump as possible (ie. where it connects into the loom in the tank bay).

If it isn't then it's out with the schematics and trace the fault back to it's origin, if it is getting power then it's probably the pump, if you think it's the pump I'd rig something up to power it independently of the car's wiring loom to prove it really is the pump . . .

Fd

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Re: Car not starting

Post by fd » Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:47 pm

Oh . . . and while we're at it have you checked the inertia cutoff switch hasn't triggered ? Also the wiring to and from the cutoff switch is fairly notorious for being not quite up to the job and failing . . .

Fd

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BiggestNizzy
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Re: Car not starting

Post by BiggestNizzy » Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:08 pm

The next question is does anyone have a MFRU I could borrow for 5 mins to check ?
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Shug
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Re: Car not starting

Post by Shug » Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:21 pm

I've got one you can have, if I can find it. Will try to get over to storage facility (parents) tonight and give you a buzz tomorrow.
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BiggestNizzy
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Re: Car not starting

Post by BiggestNizzy » Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:38 pm

Shug wrote:I've got one you can have, if I can find it. Will try to get over to storage facility (parents) tonight and give you a buzz tomorrow.
:thumbsup

will compensate you for your troubles in the sports bar ;)
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robin
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Re: Car not starting

Post by robin » Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:59 pm

As fd says, inertia switch, then immobiliser relay wiring harness failure are top of the list to check.

Niz, is your ECU in the engine bay or in the boot?

If in the boot, the 10A fuel pump fuse that lives on the ECU panel may be bust and in any case should be uprated to 20A. The fuse holder it lives in often melts once the spade terminals corrode (heat caused by passing the fuel pump current through the poor connection).

If in the engine bay, the fuse will be behind the hole that goes through to the boot - it's a bit fiddly but worth checking - they do blow, and also the fuse holder can get mashed by heat and corrosion.

Inline Littel fuse holders are available from Maplins and probably Halfords so you can rewire the fuse holder if it's gash.

But, chances are it's the inertia switch or immob relay harness that's failed ...

Cheers,
Robin
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tut
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Re: Car not starting

Post by tut » Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:59 pm

I think I have the two earliest Elises on here Robin, and the Thatcham1 was certainly an option then. As you know I have it on N1, plus the override switch, but no idea what N3 has as it does not have the internal cockpit sensor plus there is no contact on the steering column for using a touch fob.

Both cars are now bridged so they start straight off the key. Ideal for me, especially when I did European trips, but not for the average owner who lives in Chavsville Cities or has to street park etc. First time I have parked anywhere on the street for ages the valve caps went, time before that it was the radio aerial.

tut

ps wrote this hours ago, and I should have mentioned two possible causes that have both happened to me more than once, but they have now been covered ie fuel pump fuse blowing, usually caused by the holder corroding/melting or an early 10amp fuse, and the engine/fuel cut out switch activating. The former caused my engine to cut and probably saved me when everybody was stopped at Crathie on that Sunday run. Two tyres were dodgy after track days.

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BiggestNizzy
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Re: Car not starting

Post by BiggestNizzy » Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:36 pm

erm, where is the inertia switch, i can't find it :oops:
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Re: Car not starting

Post by fd » Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:40 pm

BiggestNizzy wrote:erm, where is the inertia switch, i can't find it :oops:
Black thing about 1.5 inches cube, lhs of the engine bay usually . . . depends on the age of your car

Fd

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BiggestNizzy
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Re: Car not starting

Post by BiggestNizzy » Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:20 pm

robin wrote: Niz, is your ECU in the engine bay or in the boot?
Cheers,
Robin
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alicrozier
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Re: Car not starting

Post by alicrozier » Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:52 pm

A little OT but some good info on Elise security systems here:
http://www.bell-colvill.co.uk/admin/lot ... S/4512.pdf

Actually lots of good information on this site...
http://www.bell-colvill.co.uk/admin/lot ... wsview.asp
All characters appearing in this post are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.
Any references to laptimes, speed or driving on the public highway are purely for dramatic effect.

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BiggestNizzy
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Re: Car not starting

Post by BiggestNizzy » Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:28 pm

fd wrote:
BiggestNizzy wrote:erm, where is the inertia switch, i can't find it :oops:
Black thing about 1.5 inches cube, lhs of the engine bay usually . . . depends on the age of your car

Fd

I don't have one :?

I checked the manual and it says boot compartment LHS and I can't find it :oops: :oops:
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robin
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Re: Car not starting

Post by robin » Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:06 pm

You do have one - every elise has one unless removed for race use - it's a requirement for type approval on cars with an electric fuel pump I believe.

If you check the left hand side of the engine bay (not the boot) where the air box lives. Now go backwards from the airbox towards the bulkhead with the boot and look down - there is the chassis rail running horizontally. Riveted to the chassis rail is something that looks square from the top and has a rubber cap on it - you put your finger in the middle of the cap and press down and this will click (it always clicks - only through experience of a popped one will you tell the difference between the normal little click and the real thing). Either way, once you've pressed it, try the ignition again and see if it runs.

If it doesn't run, pull the connector off the bottom of the inertia switch (it's the sort of connector that has a tab that needs to be squeezed to release it, IIRC). There is a purple wire and a white&purple wire. The purple wire should be at +12 no matter what state the ignition is in.

If it's not at +12v you need to go backwards to the ECU panel (in the boot, behind the boot bag on the kerb side) and locate the fuel pump fuse. Check both sides of the fuse - both sides should be permanently at +12. If one side is and the other isn't then chances are the fuse is blown. If neither side is live then the next stop is to inspect the fuse holder itself - look for signs of corrosion or distortion through heating. The wire colours are purple (this is the wire that leads to the inertia switch) and brown (this is the wire that leads to the battery).

If you cannot find +12 on either wire, then the brown wire is actually routed to the back of the starter motor - there's a stud there that serves as a distribution point for the +12 coming from the front. We sort of know that's live because your car cranks and I don't think it would if there was no +12 on that stud!

If you're none the wiser get a length of reasonably heavy gauge wire. Bare off both ends - stuff one end into the white&purple terminal under the inertia switch (you do this with the connector off the inertia switch, in case it's not obvious). Now connect the other end to the stud on the back of the starter (the one that's at permanent +12) - or use a jump lead from the +12 on the battery instead. Now you have bypassed the fuse and the inertia switch. Do a quick check and see if the pump now runs - if it doesn't don't keep trying - you have no fuse in the circuit!!

If that works then there's a break in the wiring between the stud and the fuse holder on the ECU panel.

Meanwhile, if you do get +12 at the purple wire on the back of the inertia switch, reconnect the connector and disconnect the big plug from the MFRU (it's under your ECU on the ECU panel IIRC).

Find the white&purple wire running into that connector. Check for signs of corrosion, over heating and obviously the +12. If it's not there then there is a break in the white&purple or the inertia switch is bust - try bypassing the inertia switch with a short length of cable stuffed into each of the terminals of the connector.

If the +12 is here then locate the brown&silver wire on the back of the same connector. Disarm the immobiliser and then use a short length of wire and touch it across from the white&purple to the brown&silver. The fuel pump should now run until you remove the wire or the immobiliser re-arms itself.

If it does run then the problem is either the MFRU or the circuit that drives the fuel pump relay - we'll look at that if it turns out to be the problem.

If it doesn't run then remove the wire link and reconnect it to the MFRU.

Next to the ECU on the panel is a black plastic cover - about 6 inches tall - it's riveted on - drill out the rivets and pop the cover off. Now there's a white connector here with a bunch of wires running into it - they're all black. Remove the connector and take a look at the terminals - once again you're looking for corrosion or heat damage. Check out this picture (courtesy of Timmsky):

Image

You need to do the same thing.

Now see if your fuel pump runs (once again you need the immobiliser disarmed, then turn on ignition).

If it does run then the immobiliser relay is goosed.

If it doesn't run then the problem is either in one of the two multi-plug loom harnesses on the ECU panel (one connects the +12 from the MFRU brown&silver into a black wire and the other connects the second black wire back to the brown&silver wire that then runs on to the fuel pump (via yet another connector that is under the wee hatch behind the passenger seat).

Try and follow some of that through and see where we get to?

Cheers,
Robin
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robin
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Re: Car not starting

Post by robin » Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:14 pm

tut wrote:I think I have the two earliest Elises on here Robin, and the Thatcham1 was certainly an option then.
It's always been an option to get a T1 alarm+immobiliser - the point is that it was never an option on UK cars not to get it because you couldn't insure the car - so dealers would insist on customers ordering the T1 "option" if you see what I mean.
N3 has as it does not have the internal cockpit sensor plus there is no contact on the steering column for using a touch fob.
N3 is not a UK spec car - probably in the country it was ordered in the T1 option was not required or even made no sense, so it just doesn't have it.

Cheers,
Robin
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