Why don't I like Honda K20's

[KingK_series]

Ok well there is lots to come, but just to kick off, 2 graphs - both 2L engines, both wet sumped, both on a plenum, both on a single 60mm TB, both 8500 rpm limit, Rover 12mm lift, Honda more, dunno what JDM cams are but OE K20a2 are 12.27mm.

http://www.dyno-plot.co.uk/dyno/dynoplo ... /index.htm

[hiscot]

apples and oranges ? one a production engine other a full race custom engine , although cost for either into an elise ?

[KingK_series]

apples and oranges ? one a production engine other a full race custom engine , although cost for either into an elise ?

- not the point Bob, yep my engine has steel crank, rods, liners etc, but they don't make power

the single TB, plenum, wet sump, 8500rpm limit, cam which are near enough identical, are what make the numbers -

[KingK_series]

*comment edited* -Shug

As stated Simon, don't criticize others' work on here. If you don't self-moderate, we'll do it for you.

[philthy]

Re-engineered k series to make it as reliable as an oem k20 fair enough it can make more power.

I'm a big fan of the k but each have their place, or is this thread a big wooden spoon like some of your posts before?

Cost of your K all in? Cost of a K20?

[KingK_series]

Re-engineered k series to make it as reliable as an oem k20 fair enough it can make more power.

I'm a big fan of the k but each have their place, or is this thread a big wooden spoon like some of your posts before?

Cost of your K all in? Cost of a K20?

I have 5 K20's here with holes puched through the block by rods gasping for fresh air - ALL out of Elises........

[foz01]

I am back,

Ok so as above, comparing the cost of the transplant as opposed to the cost of the engines is utter folly, and irrelevant.
Are you trying to justify how much better your ultimate k engine is than a standard k20 Honda lump?

Throw enough money, research, engineering and knowledge at any engine and it can be made to be better, more powerful etc, but to rubbish the Honda engine by saying spending the same (i can't see a price for an engine to the spec your talking about) as a full turnkey conversion is nonsense, as you clearly have seen the bespoke parts, wiring modifications and labour that go into putting the Honda engine in there.

To make a valid comparison compare a k20 with 10k thrown at it, from the likes of clockwise and your own king k.

And seeing as i have just spent a huge amount of time, and money fettling my own Honda car, what's the causes of the rods making a bid for freedom?

[foz01]

Oh and the oe k20 throttle body is 64mm by the way.

[KingK_series]

Oh and the oe k20 throttle body is 64mm by the way.

could be, all the people who donated their grenaded hondas to me removed the TB, apparently the throttle pot is unreliable and the TBs are worth money - ???

[KingK_series]

I am back,

Ok so as above, comparing the cost of the transplant as opposed to the cost of the engines is utter folly, and irrelevant.
Are you trying to justify how much better your ultimate k engine is than a standard k20 Honda lump?

Throw enough money, research, engineering and knowledge at any engine and it can be made to be better, more powerful etc, but to rubbish the Honda engine by saying spending the same (i can't see a price for an engine to the spec your talking about) as a full turnkey conversion is nonsense, as you clearly have seen the bespoke parts, wiring modifications and labour that go into putting the Honda engine in there.

To make a valid comparison compare a k20 with 10k thrown at it, from the likes of clockwise and your own king k.

And seeing as i have just spent a huge amount of time, and money fettling my own Honda car, what's the causes of the rods making a bid for freedom?

FYI the honda rod is really poor, like the piston


oh and the Honda BTCC engine cost £32,000+vat, mine cost less than half that as a one off -

[Shug]

Simon,

What you trying to achieve with this post?

As some have said, compare apples with apples and please do not target people and accuse them of falsifying stuff. You know the rules, please stick to them and modify your previous posts (I've edited now, as I noted you'd logged in and not complied with this request). Otherwise, the mods will have to start editing and deleting comments ourselves to stay within the guidelines of the site and that's not what we want to do. If you have any confusion about what these are, please read the sticky post at the top of every forum and the PMs and emails that you have received from moderators on the matter.

You honestly saying that a Honda K20 as it leaves the factory is 'worse' than a Rover K as it left the factory, no fettling, no rebuilding? Nobody in their right mind will accept that and comparing a factory engine, with a hand-built, rebuild using race quality parts isn't a fair comparison. And that's the comparison people are making, as the point of using a K20 in an Elise is to put an unopened, factory sealed engine in the car to replace the poorly assembled one it tends to come with. Nobody gives a toss about race tuned K20s (barring a very select few)

Nobody gives a monkeys about BTCC engines in the context of a plastic road car. Please stop using the BTCC engines as examples - it's not relevant and will only cause a fight that's totally pointless.

[Gourlay83]

I'm interested in how you built your K series. Looks like you have spent a lot of time coming up with improvements and would be an interesting read.

No need to unfairly compare it to other peoples engines.

Alan

[BiggestNizzy]

I am with Alan, I am loving the technical stuff. the comparisons when like for like are great . But comparing a hald built race engine with a crate engine maybe with some cams in it is pointless it tells you nothing.

I don't get the BTCC comparisons as you have mentioned you are not constrained by the BTCC regs.

If it's possible to build a Rover K that will put out 200+ bhp for 100k miles for less money than a Honda conversion. I would be interested in learning how.

[Scotty C]

ive never heard of a Honda going pop, but most on here have had issues with the K's.

[ABZ-Elise]

Just out of curiosity and I'm asking this because I honestly don't know. How did Rover do in BTCC compared to Honda?

I have also always wondered if the Elise came from the factory with a Honda engine if anyone would offer a Rover k-series conversion...somehow I don't think so.

Kev.