SLS Round 4 - whos in

TrackScotland · Post by **TrackScotland** » Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:43 pm

100% not a change for this year.... I think I stated I'd start a topic on potential/requested changes for 2014 on TS (earlier in this thread) but the discussion carried on anyway LOL

The thread on TS - http://www.trackscotland.co.uk/forums/v ... 71&start=0

Mikie711 · Post by **Mikie711** » Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:29 pm

Had a read of that, have to admit that I don't really get where they are coming from with regard to time cut offs. Could be driver or car or both that contributes to a good time and if someone is quicker in your class then you either drive faster/get training/improve set up or accept that they are quicker than you. If you cut down the BHP/ton then it certainly levels the playing field.

Scotty C · Post by **Scotty C** » Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:22 pm

why not mix it up and make it 150, 250, 350, 450+ BHP

TrackScotland · Post by **TrackScotland** » Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:17 pm

the main issue (in my opinion) is that 100bhp is too wide a gap.

The Lap Time banding alone wouldnt work, but I think having it as a caveat to catch those going a fair bit faster than the rest of the class... as the automatic assumption seems to be they are cheating LOL.

Good to get more feedback and ideas though...

Mikie711 · Post by **Mikie711** » Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:26 pm

TrackScotland wrote:the main issue (in my opinion) is that 100bhp is too wide a gap.

The Lap Time banding alone wouldnt work, but I think having it as a caveat to catch those going a fair bit faster than the rest of the class... as the automatic assumption seems to be they are cheating LOL.

Good to get more feedback and ideas though...

The problem with that philosophy would be that it punishes someone who is quick in class by putting them to the bottom of the class above. Which kinda defeats the purpose of timing it. Motorsport will always have people that are quicker than others, a 2-11 for instance would run somewhere about 270bhp/ton which would put it in class C but it'll run 56-57sec laps, granted that is from videos of guys on trackdays but won't be far off the mark.
Leave the times out of it and stick with reducing the BHP/ton window for the classes, see how it pans out.

TrackScotland · Post by **TrackScotland** » Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:37 pm

the cut off time to capture would be in the lower scale of the class above I'd imagine.... there will be overlapping of times between classes, as to be expected, but if X is regularly ~1sec off winning the class above but 3secs clear in his class it needs some thought. There is nothing in the regs this year, and Alan Freeland has walked away with the Class B championship with times that put him at the top of the class above. Yes, he's good, in a good car but in the interest of keeping it a challenge it wasn't very sporting.

So, along these lines, but finely tuned rather than my guessing. The initial classification remains Power to Weight, but with some form of time bracket?

(whp/tonne)

Pro: 450+ or <52s (these cars should be running under 54s a lap really)
A: 375-450 or < 54s (these cars should be 53-56s a lap)
B: 310-375 or < 56s (these cars should be 55-59s a lap)
C: 250-310 or < 58s (these cars should be 57-60s a lap)
D: 185-250 or < 60s (these cars should be 58-62s a lap)
E: <185 (these cars should be aiming towards 60s lap)
a bit complicated but makes sense in my head

Eg... if a class D car runs 57.5 it should be in C really! If 'Bobby' in B does a 54 he should be in A

Too confusing? Not sure how it would work in reverse layout either. Maybe simple power to weight id better

ceejam · Post by **ceejam** » Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:26 pm

I don't see the point in shuffling things based on times - if someone buys or builds a car to suit the regulations, they will always be quicker than someone who turns up in their road car.

It makes sense that Turbo cars only use full boost in the final - to anyone not doing that, the jump in lap times is always going to be frustrating, sandbagging if you like.
think it is important that all competitors are happy that the 'maximum boost' IS what the car was RR'd at.

When I was doing Sprints & hills, the class record was set by a supercharged S1 Exige with a 6 speed sequential 'box, so outright victories were never likely, but competition between myself, a TVR & an MX5 was close, so it was interesting!

Gourlay83 · Post by **Gourlay83** » Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:43 pm

TrackScotland wrote:thats my general take on the classes.... they are nearly there just some tweaks. The banding needs reduced, and shifted.

50bhp bands would prob be ideal but would give too many classes..

The upper class (A) is always going to have bonkers cars, or cars that have the potential to be quick... so the 400bhp/tonne seems to be a roughly correct margin.

On paper - Fee's old GTR was around 385bhp/tonne and should have been in B - doing 55sec laps on 1B tyres... so maybe lowering the headline class to 375+ ???

Thoughts?

A: 375+
B: 310-375
C: 250-310
D: 185-250
E: <185

giving 65bhp margin for B and D, 60bhp for C. E low enough for 'normal' cars, A high enough to catch more bonkers cars?

I don't think Sprint and Hill climb rules would work either, IMO all you have to do is trim the classes down to around the 50 bhp and it would solve most of my issues. what you've got above is probably as close as you can get with the limited numbers.

Mike Scib · Post by **Mike Scib** » Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:42 pm

So what class would a S2000 fall into? 1260kg 236bhp plus a 80kg driver = 176per ton? What other cars are in E Adam?

How much is it to enter a round and how much track time would you get roughly?

Edit, found the price.

So who is currently in class D?

Just thinking out loud at the moment!

TrackScotland · Post by **TrackScotland** » Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:41 am

Dave Herd - 1.9 Fiesta - 63s laps
Willie Keith - Standard Impreza - 63s laps
Craig McDowell - Clio 172 - 64+

http://superlapscotland.co.uk/drivers.htm

actaul time on track.... mmm, just under 1hr all in I'd guess.

TrackScotland · Post by **TrackScotland** » Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:47 am

and to recap...

THE CURRENT CLASSES ARE

A: >400bhp per tonne
B: 300 - 400bhp per tonne
C: 200 - 300bhp per tonne
D: <200bhp per tonne

BigD · Post by **BigD** » Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:44 pm

Gourlay83 wrote:
then have a button on the steering wheel to open the waste gate and achieve maximum ooft.

I'm no mechanic but is that not 'close' the waste gate for more boost. The wastegate bleeds excess boost does it not?

I had exactly that issue in TA, my times from the off were really consistent as I was at 100% all the time. I'd be sitting high in the table until the important times when the big powered boys would up the boost or maybe even just come out for the first time, monster the straights and the corners were just an inconvenience. Could easily keep up in the corners to watch them disappear on the straights.

50bhp bands would be better and I agree that the sprint classes are way too much. Are they not there so that everyone gets a prize in sprinting. (joking obviously)

Mikie711 · Post by **Mikie711** » Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:48 pm

I think the reference to Sprint/Hillclimb regs is more to do with the way in which they split road, modified, spot libre and race cars rather than using the complete class structure. Modified, Sport libre and race cars are tyres free where as road cars are list 1A/1B. However if you make the regs to confusing then you open up loads of loopholes to be exploited. Reducing the BHP/ton is the easiest way to close up the field and better policing of tyres needs to be done from what I have heard.
The boost button argument will role on and on and is almost impossible to police. But if someone does have that facility and uses it to their advantage then that is pretty sad at this level of motorsport.

Gourlay83 · Post by **Gourlay83** » Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:54 pm

BigD wrote:
Gourlay83 wrote:
then have a button on the steering wheel to open the waste gate and achieve maximum ooft.
I'm no mechanic but is that not 'close' the waste gate for more boost. The wastegate bleeds excess boost does it not?

I had exactly that issue in TA, my times from the off were really consistent as I was at 100% all the time. I'd be sitting high in the table until the important times when the big powered boys would up the boost or maybe even just come out for the first time, monster the straights and the corners were just an inconvenience. Could easily keep up in the corners to watch them disappear on the straights.

50bhp bands would be better and I agree that the sprint classes are way too much. Are they not there so that everyone gets a prize in sprinting. (joking obviously)

Closing the waste gate ay.. You might be on to something there

Easy way to sort this - Ban all talent masking Turbo's and 4 wheel drive

It's hardly driving is it

. Infact ban roofs, windscreens and trailers whilst your at it.

Alan (Joking, just incase someone takes me seriously)

Scottish Scrutineer · Post by **Scottish Scrutineer** » Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:32 am

Mikie711 wrote:I think the reference to Sprint/Hillclimb regs is more to do with the way in which they split road, modified, spot libre and race cars rather than using the complete class structure. Modified, Sport libre and race cars are tyres free where as road cars are list 1A/1B. However if you make the regs to confusing then you open up loads of loopholes to be exploited. Reducing the BHP/ton is the easiest way to close up the field and better policing of tyres needs to be done from what I have heard.
The boost button argument will role on and on and is almost impossible to police. But if someone does have that facility and uses it to their advantage then that is pretty sad at this level of motorsport.

Tyres were all List 1A or List 1B. That is very straightforward to keep an eye on during the day

. There are many more subtle ways of improving performance by a significant amount.

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Scottish Elises