Ditch the Hardtop ?

j2 lot · Post by **j2 lot** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:00 pm

corranga wrote:Do you have an S2?

Yes, my 2nd one , first was watertight, this one leaks like hell onto the dash and steering wheel if sort-top is not perfectly placed

you need to pull the roof forward slightly over the windscreen once it is on to stop the leak
My previous S1 s have been fairly dry as long as the roof was properly centered.

cla5h · Post by **cla5h** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:48 pm

Agree with Keith - love the hardtop in the winter as it gives the car another look, and doesn't leak at all, whereas rain-water gets in with the softop (s2.)
Also acknowledge the earlier comment (Greg?) that if you open the window, you end up with all the water that's been sitting on the roof pouring into the car.

Was a must when I was looking for the car, with hindsight isn't really that essential, however, wouldn't get rid of mine.

If you don't use it, sell it - you'll get more for it than the differential between a car with and a car without. A new owner can pick one up easy enough if they really want one.

s333fee · Post by **s333fee** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:21 pm

keep it

clan · Post by **clan** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:37 pm

Dominic wrote:
clan wrote:
Stewart wrote:Most new-to-elise owners think it is imperative to have a hard top - let's face it, we were all there at some point.

I doubt it would make too much odds trading it in at a garage but in a private sale it might just swing it or be useful as a bargaining tool reducing the car price slightly and then eBaying the HT.
I'm finding this thread quite interesting as at the moment I'm a Scottish Elan M100 owner that is finding his first winter very cold and uncomfortable in his daily driver and was looking into selling it and going for an elise with a hardtop. I have noted some of the comments and it looks like hardtop might not be required, is this the case? At the moment I feel my elan is just so cold inside when it has been sitting in my works car park and it never seems to heat up quickly enough. I just assumed that an elise with a hardtop would be a better buy for winter driving, what do you think?

S1's have the best heater. From memory, there is little warmth difference between hard top / soft top. My car did seam to be a little less damp when the hard top was on.

Thanks for the welcome, I'm definitely learning things from this thread.

Edin430 · Post by **Edin430** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:57 pm

See all 3 of the S2's that i've had have p!sshed in water with the hardtops on - The one I have just now is totally water tight with the soft top on...

Seals are slightly longer on a (short tail) soft top than they are on a hardtop so keeps the rain out better...

Plus Greg is spot on - leaves a bigger gap

Post by **campbell** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:05 pm

The soft top was launched just as I was spec'ing my car in 1999-ish, and it was a "must" for me. I planned to use the Elise regularly in all weathers including longer distance runs from C Scotland to Aberdeen, Manchester, etc.

During winter months...or wetter, drearier summer ones!...it proved a snug way to make the car feel more "production" and weather-tight. In actual fact, not a lot of difference in leakage against the soft-top but then my soft-top was a good one from the start.

However the hardtop creates a little less wind noise on the m-way, and psychologically is worth a couple of mpg too given its vastly improved aerodynamic qualities *. Winding the windows up with the doors open to ensure better fit to the seal is no big deal IMHO.

And whilst the S1 certainly seems to heat up fairly quickly whatever roof is on, the hardtop has much more insulation than the soft-top (which essentially has none) so you could argue there's a small benefit there. If my car was to be parked outside over winter (which - normally - it isn't but last two winters it has, for a few weeks at a time) then I happen to think the hard top also makes sense. Avoids the soft-top taking a battering.

And as for resale values, well, the hardtop might *just* be worth more on its own than sold with the car. But I've yet to test that out

2p worth from a very satisfied owner.

Campbell

* - only joking.

GregR · Post by **GregR** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:28 pm

best £ for £ 'upgrade' yet campbell?

*appreciating you didn't buy it, but thinking as an S1 owner buying one for £600?

clan · Post by **clan** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:05 am

campbell wrote:
And whilst the S1 certainly seems to heat up fairly quickly whatever roof is on, the hardtop has much more insulation than the soft-top (which essentially has none) so you could argue there's a small benefit there.

2p worth from a very satisfied owner.

Campbell

* - only joking.

This is what I was thinking because I cant help but think that in a sub zero works carpark all that seperates the inside of my elan to the outside is a few mm of canvas, whereas if I had an elise with a hardtop then the insulation would be a whole lot better.

Post by **campbell** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:17 am

GregR wrote:best £ for £ 'upgrade' yet campbell?

*appreciating you didn't buy it, but thinking as an S1 owner buying one for £600?

Er, I did buy it, and it cost a whopping lot more than £600 on the order sheet for the car

And still worth it!

Anyway, depends on how you mean "upgrade". If someone's divvying up their budget for performance tweaks as well as comfort, then clearly you'll get a few bangs for your buck by putting the money into suspension, brakes, head, etc etc. But clearly it depends on the goals...Eg you might also choose to set aside a few ££ for upgraded or new seats to aid long distance comfort, and so on and so on.

One thing's for sure...a hardtop is *not* "this season's must-have accessory". That honour goes, of course, to a Kiwi Rog head

Campbell

GregR · Post by **GregR** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:40 am

campbell wrote:
One thing's for sure...a hardtop is *not* "this season's must-have accessory". That honour goes, of course, to a Kiwi Rog head

Campbell

I'll drink to that!

Neil72 · Post by **Neil72** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:52 am

Spoke to Graeme about this earlier today and as if by magic he already knew the question I was going to ask him....he confessed to being a lurker on here. Keep this in mind if you are planning to slag him off !

He reckoned on my car you could subtract £500 instantly as the hardtop was part of the factory spec and buyers would expect it to be there but might not make such a difference to another car where it didn't come as part of std factory spec. All things considered I think I'll hang onto it - basically what I would make selling it now I would lose when I sold it. And more significantly, the hardtop would make it easier to sell esp if I flogged it privately.

I agree with those who think the car looks better with the hardtop fitted. It doesn't look like an afterthought and blends perfectly with the lines of the car. I've always thought that the ideal solution would be a hardtop with a couple of quick release clips that you could pop on and off in seconds. Graeme said that Lotus had explored this option but couldn't get the thing to stop squeaking and rattling.

gorrie wrote:Neil72

http://forums.seloc.org/classified.php? ... ad&id=5181

£200 for a nearly new Larini Clubsport...

Good spot Andy, cheers. I've e-mailed the guy but he hasn't replied yet. Does anyone know if the oval tip Larini can be fitted to a VVC K Series or is it only suitable for the standard 1.8 ?

clan wrote: I'm finding this thread quite interesting as at the moment I'm a Scottish Elan M100 owner that is finding his first winter very cold and uncomfortable in his daily driver and was looking into selling it and going for an elise with a hardtop. I have noted some of the comments and it looks like hardtop might not be required, is this the case? At the moment I feel my elan is just so cold inside when it has been sitting in my works car park and it never seems to heat up quickly enough. I just assumed that an elise with a hardtop would be a better buy for winter driving, what do you think?

The purists will probably disagree with me here but I think aircon would be a more useful option for you than a hardtop. Your biggest enemy is likely to be condensation and the aircon clears this in a jiffy. OK so does an old rag but the aircon does it better. I've never found lack of warmth to be a big issue inside the Elise even when it's sub zero outside but then mine is garaged.

cla5h · Post by **cla5h** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:03 pm

gorrie wrote:
Neil72

http://forums.seloc.org/classified.php? ... ad&id=5181

£200 for a nearly new Larini Clubsport...

Good spot Andy, cheers. I've e-mailed the guy but he hasn't replied yet. Does anyone know if the oval tip Larini can be fitted to a VVC K Series or is it only suitable for the standard 1.8 ?

Haven't read the thread in full, but a VVC has oval tailpipes, so surely it would be suitable for this, rather than the standard?

Edin430 · Post by **Edin430** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:15 pm

If you go on elise-shop.com you can see the exhaust itself is the exact same - just the actual pipes that differ... So shouldn't make a blinken bit of diff

graeme · Post by **graeme** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:51 pm

NOOPS 160 wrote:
graeme wrote:Hard top on the S1 was great for winter last time around. If I could find one in Scandal Green I'd have it!
Having sat in your car on track day an enjoyed it immensely.....on the coldest track day ever a couple of years back.......a hard top is the least of your worries......

By the way you and I S 160 drivers are becoming a scarcity.......

Indeedy. Can't imagine why nobody wants S160s... You'd think they were a pain to live with or something... Has Woody saved up for the 'sport' sticker yet or is he still just a 160 owner