Has anybody changed their vote about independence??

[thinfourth]

On a 5.5 hour drive back home to Perthshire today from a holiday in India the only topic of conversation was where we are likely to move to in England and when. We both have decided we can't put up any more with the constant hostility and the whinging and the whining from the SNP and their supporters. We have friends in other parts of Scotland who are thinking the same. It really saddens me to think it might come to this but the constant uncertainty, the bitterness, the bile and the nastiness is really starting to get to us. I've even been called a traitor at a checkout in Tesco by another customer because the "own Brand" of sparkling water I had put in my trolley was "English Sparkling Water". FFS, to me, it was just the cheapest on the shelf as it all bloody well tastes the same to me so why pay extra!.

Pretty much my thoughts and experience

I'm not wanted up here

Why stay?

[Jamie Satriani]

Considering the vile abuse heaped on No voters in the run up to the last referendum and pretty much every day since, I for one can fully understand the growing anger from them. Whilst I would never try and claim No voters were perfect, they weren't the ones that wanted a vote, they had it forced on them, and then, when they thought it was over for a generation, it turned out that even the day after the vote that it was starting again. And pretty much every day since we have had more nonsense from the SNP about another vote.

Also the fact that the SNP seem to have no answers to any of the big economic questions even now seems utterly crazy, and that we should somehow accept that everything will be OK based on the utter mess they are making of running Scotland at the moment. None of them seem able to see the harm they are doing to Scotland, why would any Company invest in Scotland with the chance of referendum after referendum until they get the answer they want. And then what? An utterly divided country competing against the rest of the UK and the EU? And anyone who dares question this is somehow talking Scotland down.

Even that fact we are now divided into Unionists and Nationalists is utterly stupid.

We are fed up of having SNP propaganda hammered down our throats, Scotland is a bitter divided country because of it, all the while, what actually matters is being left to rot and ruin.

Police, Education, Health, Transport, Farming.. All suffering.
Business investment is dropping, employment is lagging behind the UK.
Take a guess why...

[Scuffers]

As an Englishman, I don't get to vote.

if you held the vote in England, we would cut you loose, feeling here is we carry you too much financially and you are nothing but whingers and whiners, so good riddance etc.

If you do go independent, I give it 10 years before you're totally shafted.

Simon. You may not have seen the following another similar thread:

* Moderator edit *

General point.

IIRC this thread and a couple of others like it got pretty heated last time around.

We had to take some action over recent abusive and distasteful comments.

Keep it respectful please.

Thanks.

Campbell,

I understand your point, however, I think you have miss-read my comment.

It's not that the English are anti-Scottish per say, it's more about our loathing of the SNP as personified by wee crankie whining on about independance 24/7 when they know full well it's simply not an option unless Scotland wants to become a third world country.

I'm pretty sure the English are not alone in loathing her, and to be blunt, I'm pretty sure most of the population north of the border are too.

This whole situation remind me of a typical family dealing with an adolescent teenager who keeps screaming "it's so unfair" to everything.

[c8rkh]

Maybe we should start calling her Kevin?

Campbell. I really do feel there is a little over zealous moderating above. The comments where not offensive in my mind, merely putting forward an alternative point of view from a different perspective. Indeed, if you followed that sort of moderating style then half of what Sturgeon says would never be printed or allowed on the TV due to her constant sniping at Westminster, Tories, etc. Just saying.... this is a very emotive subject and will change people's lives for ever so whilst we all want it to be civil (and certainly we do not any repeats of the recent bile on here) we should allow for the strength of feeling.

I live in Scotland but spend most of my time during the week commuting to and working in England, so I can relate to Scuffers comments and some of what Scuffers said is true. I would not say there is an anti-Scottish feeling in England, certainly not to the extent of the anti-English feeling in parts of Scotland. However, increasingly, all Sturgeon is doing is poking the sleeping the bear, harder and harder. The bear is starting to wake up with a headache and if anyone, pro independence or not, does not understand that a future successful Scotland in our generation relies to at least some extent on the co-operation of the Bear - you, know, that consumes the vast majority of our exports and services, then they really do need to go and see a man in a white coat. We have been told several times now, but Sturgeon and the SNP even now still refuse to believe it and acknowledge it, that we cannot just "take over" the UK seat in Europe and that we will need to apply to join, so poking the biggest market for our goods in the way she is is just insanity in my mind. All we hear are dire warnings, threats, and accusations every day in our newspapers and on the TV news from her and the SNP and then Angus comes on all smiley to say "we are operating in good faith but it all the English Tory Governments fault". It's stark barking raving mad and I would add a tad naive to expect a fully compliant partner given this going forwards. We are a nation of 5m people, throwing stones and insults daily at a rest of the united kingdom of some 61m people. This is gonna go well isn't it. Aye right.

[thinfourth]

SNP FACT 1

Scotland will be in the EU and will have free trade with EU members


SNP FACT 2

The rest of the UK will be forced to use WTO rules to trade with the EU


So one must ask the question

How will i still be able to buy stuff from England once we go independent?


As hammered home to one the SNP brighter stars

https://www.channel4.com/news/scottish- ... -whiteford

[Scuffers]

Maybe we should start calling her Kevin?

LOL!

Watch on YouTube

[c8rkh]

As hammered home to one the SNP brighter stars

https://www.channel4.com/news/scottish- ... -whiteford[/quote]



Oh my god. What is it that this woman did not understand? She's not even and MSP, but an MP, so she at least should have a better view of the wider constitutional view within the whole UK and the EU! Her lack of basic knowledge is shameful to be honest.

That is a terrible indictment of just how the SNP do not have a clue or a plan for the future. It is a case of "every one will do what we want and we will have the cake and we will eat it". The bit that gets me is that she does not even understand that if Scotland is a part of the EU (or the EFTA zone like Norway) that she, the SNP or Scotland CANNOT make a unilateral agreement with the rUK that is out of it. This is cloud cuckoo land, or should I say, La La Land, politics - my hands are over my ears and I cannot hear you as I do not like what you are saying....

[thinfourth]

Oh my god. What is it that this woman did not understand? She's not even and MSP, but an MP, so she at least should have a better view of the wider constitutional view within the whole UK and the EU! Her lack of basic knowledge is shameful to be honest.

That is a terrible indictment of just how the SNP do not have a clue or a plan for the future. It is a case of "every one will do what we want and we will have the cake and we will eat it". The bit that gets me is that she does not even understand that if Scotland is a part of the EU (or the EFTA zone like Norway) that she, the SNP or Scotland CANNOT make a unilateral agreement with the rUK that is out of it. This is cloud cuckoo land, or should I say, La La Land, politics - my hands are over my ears and I cannot hear you as I do not like what you are saying....

But she is scottish so therefore has a far better understanding of YOUR viewpoint then someone from england

Or don't you believe in magic postcodes?

[BiggestNizzy]

Reading the posts above I find tge no voters more aggressive than the yes voters. I have not seen any more anti English sentiment that tje normal nutters you had before ( although like racists down south the referendum has given them done legitimacy) as for all the comments above you could replace Scotland for UK, UK for Europe, sturgeon for May and it would read just as well.

[c8rkh]

Aggressive? Really? OK. Will tone down........

One thing you should consider, is that the YES supporters have a whole government, albeit a minority one so hardly a full mandate but let's not start that again, with all the spin and attendant press/social media/PR machine that goes with it. For those of us who believe in the value of the union, or, who do not see the numbers adding up fiscally/economically our various forums are were we get to discuss, rant, argue (with respect of course) and generally socialise our thoughts on the topic.
I think what most people like me are lookijng for though is simple truths, facts, and honesty which, as with Indyref1 we just are not getting again from our Government. It's OK to not have a plan. Who knows what the future will be. But ignoring what is in the public domain, ploughing on regardless, and not accepting peoples right to query and ask for honest answers, is not the way to go and is not the foundation for a truly successful independent nation to be built upon. The SNP now need to grow up and behave like intelligent adults, as opposed to pubescent teenagers when it comes to the real issues that matter.

Just a point of view. Others will have a different one but that is OK too.

[Scuffers]

But she is scottish so therefore has a far better understanding of YOUR viewpoint then someone from england

Or don't you believe in magic postcodes?

that's a pretty lame statement, are you suggesting that nobody that does not live North of the border can have a scoobie-do about Scottish politics?


So, on this basis, we should ignore any 'expert' on any subject if they don't actually live in the country of their subject?

[thinfourth]

I belive you may of quoted the relevant clue as to my thoughts about only scottish people can make the right choices for Scottish people

[Scuffers]

I belive you may of quoted the relevant clue as to my thoughts about only scottish people can make the right choices for Scottish people

OK, not trying to argue that non-Scott's having a vote (although one could argue the rest of the UK should have a say?) but the question of who's opinions are valid.

[c8rkh]

So if a man decides to divorce a woman the woman should have no say? Or vice-versa?

The Union is a 350 odd year old institution and the impact of Scotland leaving could have profound impacts both sides of the border. Maybe there should be a referendum in the rUK about whether Scotland should stay or go. Would be interesting to see the reaction if this was the case and the vote was for "please go". I would hope that that would not be the outcome by the way. It feels to me that the "yes" voters want the divorce, and they also want to lay down their terms that the other side must accept. I don't think it is going to be that easy to be honest and we are kidding ourselves if we think the will/demands of 5m will overcome the will/demands of 60m. I'm still desperately searching for that modicum of reality but yet again we have the banging of the drum today and the headlines in the Herald "Sturgeon's vow to the Scottish People - There will be a second referendum - as the First Minister lays down the law to May". As far as I am aware May has not said there will never be another referendum, just that right now is not the time. And it seems from yet another poll today that the majority in Scotland agree with May and do not want the referendum now. I thought we wanted the Government to LISTEN to the will of the people?

[campbell]

Maybe we should start calling her Kevin?

LOL.

Campbell. I really do feel there is a little over zealous moderating above....

...We are a nation of 5m people, throwing stones and insults daily at a rest of the united kingdom of some 61m people. This is gonna go well isn't it. Aye right.

You've somewhat answered your own point.

The moderating is not intended to be over-zealous (frankly I don't have the time anyway). But we lost a valued member and banned another after previous over-zealous debating and I don't want to see this happen again.

SE is a car enthusiasts forum although we are all allowed to bring any topic we wish, even if well outside that sphere (well, within reason!).

But I hope I speak for the majority by observing that they wouldn't want to see SE dragged down to the level of so many other social media platforms with stones and insults thrown daily.

The SE community was around long before social media and IndyRefs. I for one would like to see it survive both phenomena and be around for a couple of decades more too.

cheers

Campbell

PS - for avoidance of doubt, I'll share my personal views as I see fit. When I write in blue or with "moderator edit" clearly marked, I'm in Mod role not personal. I will do my utmost to keep both separate.