Independence

[campbell]

I run a deficit (it's called a mortgage / overdraft / car loan, delete as appropriate!) but still consider that I stand on my own two feet

[pete]

I run a deficit (it's called a mortgage / overdraft / car loan, delete as appropriate!) but still consider that I stand on my own two feet

Do you? Deficit is the gap between income and outgoings (I think). I'm not talking about debt, we're talking about more money going out than coming in.

I have debt, but it is slowly getting smaller. Most western countries are currently running deficits - their debt is getting bigger.

(When I said everyone in the earlier post I meant every country, and should have written lots of countries. Sorry.)

[Ferg]

I'm not maybe best equiped to discuss some of the finer points. But there are some primary problems I have with Mr.Salmond and SNP plans:

I've not seen a policy that isn't designed to be popular. It's Free this and reduced that, but without a balance sheet to show where the money is being pulled from. (AFAIK)

Many of the popular policies seem to fly directly against any chance we'd have of operating independantly, like Nuclear Power, Armed Forces, Banks etc.

I get the feeling that the vote lanaguage will be rigged to be incredibly biased to the popular approach. I suspect this is the real reason SNP are so anti using the established independent regulators. The only acceptable way I can see it comign to pass if it is indeed a Yes-No vote. But You know the SNP don't want that as they can't predict/manipulate the outcome.

I'm concerned there isn't a balanced view being perpetrated by the press. The local tv and printed press can be very pro SNP. It's not always in the content, sometimes just the tilt of the delivery.

Just some thoughts.

[campbell]

I run a deficit (it's called a mortgage / overdraft / car loan, delete as appropriate!) but still consider that I stand on my own two feet

Do you? Deficit is the gap between income and outgoings (I think). I'm not talking about debt, we're talking about more money going out than coming in.

Aha, yes, O Grade Economics slowly coming back to me - you are right. Sorry. I was thinking about Net Worth (that one's O Grade Accounting )

Anyways, standing on own two feet is about more than the Budget Deficit I reckon. Haven't got time to try to define it right now but I know what I mean!

[GregR]

What I would like to see is a legal case for independence. I'd like to see it contested in the Courts. I'm not saying that because I'm a lawyer looking to earn money from it!

Politicians seem to be able to get away with skirting round issues, putting "spin" on things and making pre-election pledges that they fail to follow through. If there were a case of Westminster v. Holyrood (presupposing Westminster cares about Scotland leaving the UK) then I would like AS to put his experts in the witness box, on oath, to justify the facts and figures pro-independence. I would then like to see the counter argument and all of the evidence could be laid out. The Court could then decide the weight to attach to the evidence. Having been on oath, no-one could have an opportunity to hide behind spin or privilege.

Politicians can say , "I genuinely believe Scotland would be better off as an independent state." Although no-one's yet said it, what does that mean? Better off than what? They're not fibbing without a definition. On Question Time or any other public Q&A they can hide behind a report from X department that influenced their statements. If later disproved, it wasn't the politician's fault it turned out to be nonsense. Remember WMD and Iraq?

The evidence pro and contra needs to be tested. I sincerely doubt that will ever happen.

The problem with politics: It's all politics.

[BiggestNizzy]

What I would like to see is a legal case for independence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-determination

You have the right, but they don't go into much detail.

[tut]

I don't. He calls us "hated English"

I don't think he calls us "hated English"

Which one Robin?

tut

Surely you mean:-

Which one, Robin?

No pause Greg, no comma.

tut

[campbell]

Greg for First Minister.

Do we need an extra poll for this

[BiggestNizzy]

Taiwanese TV explains it so much better

Watch on YouTube

[Mikie711]

What I would like to see is a legal case for independence. I'd like to see it contested in the Courts. I'm not saying that because I'm a lawyer looking to earn money from it!

Politicians seem to be able to get away with skirting round issues, putting "spin" on things and making pre-election pledges that they fail to follow through. If there were a case of Westminster v. Holyrood (presupposing Westminster cares about Scotland leaving the UK) then I would like AS to put his experts in the witness box, on oath, to justify the facts and figures pro-independence. I would then like to see the counter argument and all of the evidence could be laid out. The Court could then decide the weight to attach to the evidence. Having been on oath, no-one could have an opportunity to hide behind spin or privilege.

Politicians can say , "I genuinely believe Scotland would be better off as an independent state." Although no-one's yet said it, what does that mean? Better off than what? They're not fibbing without a definition. On Question Time or any other public Q&A they can hide behind a report from X department that influenced their statements. If later disproved, it wasn't the politician's fault it turned out to be nonsense. Remember WMD and Iraq?

The evidence pro and contra needs to be tested. I sincerely doubt that will ever happen.

The problem with politics: It's all politics.

Greg I think the legal battle is over weather, depending on the outcome of course, Scotland can legally break away from the union. Rather than the pro's and con's on independence. Although I do agree with you that if conducted in court then all the facts would be a matter of public record as opposed to somebody presenting a particular version of the truth to suit themselves. Pity it'll never happen but would make things much simpler to understand.

[Mr Momo]

Taiwanese TV explains it so much better

So much clearer

Great debate on QT last night - cut short by programme length. Ironic that QT was in London, but half the debate was taken up by the call for a referendum.

I think we will need until 2014 to sort all the issues out

Interesting Article, especially near the bottom. Explains why Salmond wants teh Queen as Head of State (i.e. Crown Estate):

http://www.johnkay.com/2011/05/31/scotl ... ed-kingdom

[pete]

Taiwanese TV explains it so much better

So much clearer

Great debate on QT last night - cut short by programme length. Ironic that QT was in London, but half the debate was taken up by the call for a referendum.

I think we will need until 2014 to sort all the issues out

Interesting Article, especially near the bottom. Explains why Salmond wants teh Queen as Head of State (i.e. Crown Estate):

http://www.johnkay.com/2011/05/31/scotl ... ed-kingdom

Very good article.

[Mr Momo]

Another article from Douglas Fraser, BBC Scotland's Business Editor :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16548644

[scottishselise]

Taiwanese TV explains it so much better

So much clearer

Great debate on QT last night - cut short by programme length. Ironic that QT was in London, but half the debate was taken up by the call for a referendum.

I think we will need until 2014 to sort all the issues out

Interesting Article, especially near the bottom. Explains why Salmond wants teh Queen as Head of State (i.e. Crown Estate):

http://www.johnkay.com/2011/05/31/scotl ... ed-kingdom

Very good article.

Agree'd. Oddly enough, some random asked me at the bar, "what are your thoughts on this independance malarky?", I said, "I am not sure of the financial feasability as I have not read enough about it, but it would be great if it could work and was beneficial to our country", his reponse "good man, f the english, f the english!"

I am unable to have a strong enough opinion either way if I don't have enough knowledge. Working on it...

[j2 lot]

his reponse "good man, f the english, f the english!" ..

Sadly that is the one and only reason some people will vote for independence