Brexit.

[BiggestNizzy]

You have put up a picture of the commision, the civil service of the EU who draft the laws that get voted on my the democratically elected parliment. If I showed you a picture of David Cook and asked who voted for him would be able to tell me, could you tell me what he does even after you google it

First past the post is pish. People were just too thick to understand a simple idea. The adverts pro FPTP even said so.

This guy says it better

Watch on YouTube

[Scuffers]

You have put up a picture of the commision, the civil service of the EU who draft the laws that get voted on my the democratically elected parliment. If I showed you a picture of David Cook and asked who voted for him would be able to tell me, could you tell me what he does even after you google it

First past the post is pish. People were just too thick to understand a simple idea. The adverts pro FPTP even said so.

This guy says it better

Watch on YouTube

two points:

1) only the commision can instigate legislation, the EU parliament is literally a rubber-stamping chamber.

Our UK parliament is 100% elected, the cabinet is made up of elected MP's, and even non-cabinet MP's can raise legislation (Private members bills etc).

to attempt to compare the two is laughable and stupid.

2) FPTP may be stupid, but it's still democracy, an thus somewhat better than being ruled by unelected bureaucrats.

I'm personally not a fan of FPTP, but we had a democratic referendum on the subject, thus I accept the result.

[Kelvin]

The workers rights argument is interesting.

I run our Belgium business and have been involved in the re-structure of our French business and I know how our German business operates. Trust me, workers in each of those three countries are better protected compared to the UK with Germany leading the way. As an employee I'd far rather be under their employment law than ours and as an employer UK law is far better for the business (insofar that you can pretty much do what you like) You can argue, of course, that in say, France, business is stifled because of the protection workers' enjoy but that's a separate argument and of course it hasn't held Germany back. It's also worth noting that employment law is quite different in all four countries despite all being in the EU.

[rossybee]

Phew. Just glad I voted 2 weeks ago. I've been able to concentrate on my family and on running my business instead.

Ditto - as I'm away with work.

No need to fret now, and tbh I haven't regretted my decision.

[pete]

with respect, that's total rubbish!

I read the first half, up to the comma, and my heart lifted - "that's the nicest thing he's said to me" I thought and considered stopping reading at that point. Then. Tears.

Let's start with wealth of the nation, GDP may have risen but if you actually use GDP per head of population, guess what happens? yes, it's falling fast, and the only reason GDP is rising is because the population has shot up with migration, in real terms, we are some 10-12% worse off now than we were 10 years ago, the so-called economic miracle is basically bull - Germany is about to find this out the hard way, good luck with that!

Look, I don't want to appear rude, but I have literally no idea what you are talking about here. To whom is this a response? C8rkh or me? It seems contradictory.

To claim that we are are 10-12 % worse off than we were 10 years ago wihtout mentioning the banking crisis does, I'm afraid, somewhat undermine your credibility.

the reason industry is in recession is beauce of EU lead green stupidity, giving up the highest energy prices on the planet, hence why Steelmaking is dieing, Aluminium smelting had already dies, and just about every other heavy industry is in deep trouble, but no problem, let's keep subsiding windmill and shutting down coal stations (at a time when Germany is building new coal stations!)

Umm OK Britain is in recession because of the EU green laws but not Germany?

so, just because you don;t like FPTP, you would rather be ruled from a far away unelected bureaucratic mammoth? please explain how this is any different to how the USSR was run? or are you suggesting that was a model society?

There is a famous quote from the Cold war by someone (might be George Carlin)along the lines of "We mock the Soviets for their fake elections where there is only one candidate. We are utterly different. We have 2 candidates."

My daughter's friend has a small bear which he has since he was a baby who is also called Scuffers, I will attempt to find a picture of him to send to you.
(He is a small and well mannered bear but somewhat prone to arguing vociferously when deprived of sleep or marmalade.)

[pete]

Our UK parliament is 100% elected.

Look this is simply untrue. Have you ever heard of the House of Lords?

If you are ever in that London you can arrange a visit to the UK Parliament through your MP and it is ace. It's free and they explain how it works and everything. We took our daughter but it's aimed at adults too.

We've also been round the Bundestag which is the German Parliament and that too is ace. Genuinely a 5 star tour. Not just to look at the building, but also for an explanation of how a parliamentary system can work in a less adversarial way.

HTH.

[woody]

Scuffers, regarding the USSR, do you know of a Euro Solzhenitsyn just poised to blog about the EU Gulags? I thought the problem was so many Romanians and the like appearing next door, not your next door neighbour just disappearing? Or are the cold wet far away lands is the UK really just EU exile? I thought the problem was unplanned immigration, not centrally, fully planned & forced immigration and passport free travel Vs a passport to get around the one country?

[thinfourth]

The workers rights argument is interesting.

I run our Belgium business and have been involved in the re-structure of our French business and I know how our German business operates. Trust me, workers in each of those three countries are better protected compared to the UK with Germany leading the way. As an employee I'd far rather be under their employment law than ours and as an employer UK law is far better for the business (insofar that you can pretty much do what you like) You can argue, of course, that in say, France, business is stifled because of the protection workers' enjoy but that's a separate argument and of course it hasn't held Germany back. It's also worth noting that employment law is quite different in all four countries despite all being in the EU.

And greece ranks lower on the international workers rights scale then kuwait

The whole workers right argument for the remain camp is weaker then soggy bog roll

[thinfourth]

Our UK parliament is 100% elected.

Look this is simply untrue. Have you ever heard of the House of Lords?

If you are ever in that London you can arrange a visit to the UK Parliament through your MP and it is ace. It's free and they explain how it works and everything. We took our daughter but it's aimed at adults too.

We've also been round the Bundestag which is the German Parliament and that too is ace. Genuinely a 5 star tour. Not just to look at the building, but also for an explanation of how a parliamentary system can work in a less adversarial way.

HTH.

I am far from convinced that 100% elected is a good idea as you tend to get people that are good at being elected and are nothing more then power hungry little gits like blair and salmond

I would prefer it if we could have leading experts in a field running that field. Like have the science minster to actually know about science. To have the finance minster not to be a college drop out


Sadly the EU appears to be combining the worst of both of these systems and combining them

We have odious power hungry gits who failed to get elected promoted into positions of power despite having zero knowledge of what they are overseeing


The sooner Tescos buys the UK and starts running it the better

[Scuffers]

I am far from convinced that 100% elected is a good idea as you tend to get people that are good at being elected and are nothing more then power hungry little gits like blair and salmond

I would prefer it if we could have leading experts in a field running that field. Like have the science minster to actually know about science. To have the finance minster not to be a college drop out


Sadly the EU appears to be combining the worst of both of these systems and combining them

We have odious power hungry gits who failed to get elected promoted into positions of power despite having zero knowledge of what they are overseeing


The sooner Tescos buys the UK and starts running it the better

with you here, come the revolution, I would have a rule that nobody could stand as an MP unless they have worked in a real job outside of the public sector for at least 10 years.

the problem with experts is whilst they may well be good in their field, they are usually totally hopeless at managing anything, you only have to look at local councils and the NHS for examples.

I agree a commercial management structure would be better, but that's no guarantee, Tesco's are a good example of how to cook the books, the extremes are Enron.

At the end of the day, there is no perfect solution.

I still think even with the problems we have, democracy is the way forward.

[c8rkh]

so let's give the power to the EU dictatorship.

Whatever happened to democracy?

In what way is the European Union a dictatorship?

What did happen to democracy ?
Iin the UK we have a party with a majority who only got 36% of the vote 3rd place SNP get 4.7% of the vote and get 7 times more seats than 4th place who got 7.9% of the vote.

The EU is headed by an un-elected commission that consists of a President and 28 commissioners. One selected by the Government of each country in the EU. The Commissioners then preside over a tribe of 33,000 un-elected bureaucrats.

The Commissioners, you would assume, are accountable to the elected Governments that sent them there. But you would be wrong to assume this. They are ONLY accountable to the EU Commission President, a certain Mr Juncker.

It is the un-elected Commission that is responsible for drawing up and constructing ALL of the EU's laws. They do this behind a closed door with no public scrutiny or scrutiny from the elected Members of the European Parliament, or MEPs as they are known.

Once the laws are drafted, they are presented to the MEPs who ONLY have the right to suggest, not demand, or insist, on amendments. If the Commission does not agree with the amendments, and no consensus is reached, then a negotiation takes place behind closed doors - so not very transparent.

Once the Laws are accepted, it is then down to the Commission and its 33,000 bureaucrats to enforce them.

The role of the MEPs in setting and agreeing new laws is negligible and they are only their to present a veil of democracy, luckily, we can see through the veil.

The EU machine is determined to push through a single European state model, which if successful, will mean that Scotland (as well as England, Wales, Northern Ireland, France etc) will all become States in the Federal European Country, as opposed to individually governed countries in their own rights. The UK will be like Florida, or Texas in the US - so why the SNP still bangs on about Independence in Europe is beyond me. If you doubt this goal, please bear in mind that the EU is seeking a permanent seat on the United Nations (big clue that word "nations") Security Council! This will give it formal recognition as a country state.


Now, if you still think that is a better version of democracy, transparency, and accountability than what we have with our two houses in Westminster (one elected, one independent but not elected), and 3 devolved Governments in the UK, then quite frankly, we will never agree. We are on the verge of sleepwalking into an invasion of 28 member countries by an un-elected, undemocratic, self serving entity. It might as well change its name from the EU to Spectre, it is that sinister!

[istoo]

Phew. Just glad I voted 2 weeks ago. I've been able to concentrate on my family and on running my business instead.

Anyone watching the results show live? Or the spin off series on BBC3?!

I should have done that, sensible.

[Ferg]

[c8rkh]

Lol - and what makes you think it won't crash and burn whilst we remain?
Fear of the unknown was what kept mankind thinking the world was flat until 1450.
Leaps of faith can result in good things too and I for one believe our little Island will always prosper as we are innovative, agile, flexible, and if all else fails, bloody good at drinking ourselves silly to forget about the mistakes.
Roll on change.
Better still, roll and bacon on Friday morning to celebrate the new dawn.

[campbell]

I get that. Fear of change and the like. But a lot of folk perished to prove the earth wasn't flat. You up for that then?!