Review of the new Elise SC - from PH

Andy G · Post by **Andy G** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:40 pm

GregR wrote:echo that, but sub 25k is what they should be aiming at IMO

dont reckon they'd be able to use an engine with enough poke at that price point

tut · Post by **tut** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:51 pm

"The cup holder is taking the piss!"

Probably Andy, but useful for Scotty when we get fed up of stopping for him..........

tut

Post by **campbell** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:37 pm

Graeme,

1. Take a valium.

2. Put your feet up.

3. Think about this...

...I reckon legislation / type approval has a lot to do with this. And also market analysis. Remember, Lotus needs a certain volume and certain profitability in its cars to stay alive, and it must surely just be that there aren't enough stripped-out-trackday-oriented customers like you and others to keep them afloat.

Now more pragmatically, if you needed to move from the S160 with your newfound, hardearned, wealth and leisure time, then what better than either

a) an early S2 - holding true to lightweight, relative simplicity and of course very good VFM these days

b) a 135R, fast becoming THE S2 for those who aren't hell bent on ticking the "Sport Tourer extra pile carpets" option box

OK so these are 2nd hand not new, but who wants a brand new car anyway? They are always heavier, more complicated and faster to depreciate than their forebears.

Go on, have a nice warm bath and calm down...enjoy your current (and of course, second) Elise for what it is right now, and worry about its replacement when the time comes

Campbell
(always fancied a Sport 135 and then a 135R but happy with what he's had for last 9 years faction!!)

gorrie · Post by **gorrie** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:26 pm

and calm is restored....

Andy G · Post by **Andy G** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:34 pm

campbell wrote:Graeme,

1. Take a valium.

2. Put your feet up.

3. Think about this...

Post by **Shug** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:39 pm

Campbell, nobody was saying they shouldn't concentrate on the money demographic, they do need a proper stripped out cheap Elise though. Not exactly huge costs to productionise a car with less bits on it - nobody's asking for re-engineering...

The only thing I can think of that would have added weight from Type Approval changes would be the servo for the mandatory ABS. That certainly doesn't add the thick end of 200kg.

So, sorry, can't agree. Also, we're talking about customers who would want to buy a new car, so the arguments about early S2s and 135Rs really don't come into it. Lotus are producing a wider and wider range of types of Elise for the same customer.

Mr Momo · Post by **Mr Momo** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:56 pm

graeme wrote:So sad, and very frickin' infuriating. I know the SC has been discussed already, but reading about it again really winds me up. I hope when this Eagle thing is launched to fill the midlife-crisis market Lotus can stop using the Elises to fill it and start making proper Elises without ABS, TC, carpet, and now airbags FFS!! S1s won't last forever, so what the hell am I supposed to buy next?

Fine, so Lotus is a business and there's more of a market for fat, soft Elises with straight-line grunt and driveability (whatever that is), but the tub is still the same masterpiece underneath so where's the stripped out model in the range? The 2-eleven? No roof, can't live with it, can't afford £40k. S2 S? The only thing Lotus left out of that was the the good cams!

Seriously Lotus. It's about frickin' time you remembered who your fans are and why the S1 is so good and make a new Elise that I would actually go see Graeme@MMC about! When I first joined SE 5 years ago aged 22, I scraped together the biggest loan I could get to buy the scruffiest S1 on Autotrader. Now after 5 years of working my ass off pretty much 7 days a week, I can actually afford to walk into MMC and buy a new Elise, only I don't want to because they keep churning out fat-barsteward fair-weather tourers like this SC PoS, and to hell with the S1 fan-club. I want a 750kg S2 Superlight in Krypton Green with more power, no radio, no carpet, no speakers, no soding aircon, no sound-proofing, no airbags and no £35k pricetag!

Graeme
* gets down off soapbox *

So what you want is a 2-11 with a roof - that'd be mental..

But it certainly wouldn't be <£35k.......

BiggestNizzy · Post by **BiggestNizzy** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:57 pm

(shug)
someone got in first

I would have thought a large selection of models from "basic" car to full on tourer or track car would have been the better option. I don't see any reason for not having a fluid product range from £25k weekend blaster to £45K track monster and everything in between Lotus are a low volume manufacturer and are setup for the individual requirements of customers.

Good salesmen will get you to part with your cash for all those fun extra's

If lotus are reading this and want some more idea's pm me and I will send my CV, I am always open to new and exciting job offers

Mr Momo · Post by **Mr Momo** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:05 pm

Andy G · Post by **Andy G** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:51 pm

Remember my scorn about the likely price;

http://pistonheads.com/sales/354367.htm

£38995

Who in their right f*cking mind would pay hethel £2k to paint a car!

I wonder if you can request it unpainted so you can get it properly done

graeme · Post by **graeme** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:07 pm

I'm with Shug-pid.

Sorry Campbell, we usually agree on 'stuff' but not this time.

I'm all for the mass-market stuff and I understand that without selling loads of fat Exiges, there can be no 2-eleven. Fine. I admire all the models, and the SC will find many happy homes.

What I was getting at is that this SC is yet another edition that's overloaded with touring luxuries (see "Sport Racer" for details) to bump the price up, and I feel it's high bloody time for a stripped out edition.

Who says it needs type approval anyway? My car doesn't have type approval, and neither to 49 of its factory-born siblings. I just don't understand how many more fat editions we have to endure before there's a thin one...

Early S2 111S and 135R offer no advantage over the car I have now. There's only a year or two of age between them, so what are Lotus going to do to get me and others like me into a new showroom Elise? In fact, I can see the 135R owners in the same predicament in a few years' time...

Where next?

graeme · Post by **graeme** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:21 pm

Andy G wrote: Who in their right f*cking mind would pay hethel £2k to paint a car!

Lots of people I hope... It'll pay for the development and testing of a limited run of £29,000 800kg SVA N/A Yota-lumped, Stage-2ed, Yoko-shod, Ohlin-damped Scandal Green Sport220s. With really nice seats.

*really gets off soapbox this time*

EliseR · Post by **EliseR** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:41 pm

I think the base price for the S/C elise is £33K. Only the extras bump the price up to the 38ish figure...

The basic model won't even have Air Con I believe? Not sure aboyt heaters etc. Carpets can easily be taken out...

Does the super charger and the second cam not more than make up for the weight increase?

Not sure, the Elise R is the only model I have driven.

G.

GregR · Post by **GregR** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:52 pm

I think the point that's being made Gary is that the Elise is, by definition, a compromised car. Lotus are spending too much time, effort and money trying to attract 'prestige' customers by adding all of these leathery, air-con and cup holder nonsense. They'll never tempt boxster drivers, so why not concentrate on what they know and do best?

The SC making up for the weight is neither here nor there - it shouldn't be added for any reason other than to make it go like sh*t off a shovel, and certainly not to balance out dead weight (i.e. non performance enhancing)that's been added.

What I don't get is that Lambo, Ferrari and Porsche have a bouyant market for their Supeleggeras, Scuderias and GT3 RSs as 'stripped out' racers. Lotus has the ideal template and the perfect starting point - why do they keep adding weight when others are stripping out?

bertieduff · Post by **bertieduff** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:07 pm

I suppose that in that sort of company Lotus is the poor man though- it's always going to be highly attractive to stick on a few more bits of tat and make the most of profit margins. They certainly need the cash.

Those of us that give a hoot about principles don't pay the bills unfortunately- we're generally bunch of pikeys that tape our cars back together