Track etiquette - letting the slow guys back in

[dezzy]

Good discussion and advice folks - exactly what I was hoping for

I do ease off a bit when letting people by, and I do use my left indicator to move back over - perhaps I'm going too far over to the right as AndyG suggests, so I'll try not to do that in future.

Robin's comment on the number of cars you should let past on each straight is very interesting . . . one of the times this happened to me on Friday night, it was the 6th car overtaking that caused the issue when he wouldn't let me back in!! And this was on the back straight to the hairpin!! As I said above, my intention was only for one or two to pass, but then you end up with six trying to get by!

I'll definitely be more forceful with moving back over, but I guess the difficulty is that the blind spot on the Exige is bad - poor rear visibility and when you're strapped in to harnesses with a helmet on, it can be difficult. Heather was a great passenger, as she would give me the thumbsup that it's safe to move back in. Perhaps that's something we can all ask our passengers to help with?

Kenny, it was really only the hairpin I experienced this at personally, but I've seen it happen to other cars approaching Clarks.

There were several regular SE guys who took the time to flash me back across to the left when there was a big hold up which was great

Should have said this also! The issue with not getting back on line for the corner only happened a couple of times - the majority of the time, the regular SE'rs were great with flashes and letting me back across.

Cheers for all the advice and comments guys

D

[campbell]

A major part of the solution here starts in the Driver Briefing.

Knockhill can get lazy, or (flatteringly) assume we are all fairly experienced and not labour some points.

But clearly we'd rather points like this were laboured if they benefit even one driver and avoid a costly incident.

On a couple of occasions, we asked KH to allow time for a club-specific briefing after their main chat during sign-on, at SIDC days. This gave us time to re-inforce some key messages about use of indicators, pass ONLY ON LEFT, etc, and this is where the message about backing off to let an obliging car filter back into line could be delivered unambiguously to all.

Meantime, buyer beware, so yes, getting back towards the right line well ahead of the braking board is the action whch will speak louder than any indicator

[kenny]

Robin's comment on the number of cars you should let past on each straight is very interesting . . . one of the times this happened to me on Friday night, it was the 6th car overtaking that caused the issue when he wouldn't let me back in!! And this was on the back straight to the hairpin!! As I said above, my intention was only for one or two to pass, but then you end up with six trying to get by!

Fridays trackday was unusual in that you had a very busy track with mainly cars of a similar power. This lead to the trains of cars you describe, perhaps not helped by some people being a wee bit slow or hesitant to move over, although not really surprising considering how many newbies were on track, and definitely contributed to the large bunches of cars.

[kenny]

so yes, getting back towards the right line well ahead of the braking board is the action whch will speak louder than any indicator

Almost all the braking boards are gone. I attribute this to my currently varying entry speeds into the hairpin and subsequent sideways motions

[campbell]

so yes, getting back towards the right line well ahead of the braking board is the action whch will speak louder than any indicator

Almost all the braking boards are gone. I attribute this to my currently varying entry speeds into the hairpin and subsequent sideways motions

chortle!

ok for "braking board" read "your chosen safe braking point"...which for me on the pit straight is the bridge as people well know (last of the late brakers me!!!)

[mckeann]

ok for "braking board" read "your chosen safe braking point"...which for me on the pit straight is the bridge as people well know (last of the late brakers me!!!)

OK, OK, you can have a free lesson

[mac]

Dezzy,

It happens to experience track day guys too - I've seem myself at an almost stop, normally at Clarkes when folk think they can get passed when they clearly can't.

I've read that stopping is stupid, but when these guys *think* they can pass they tend to be nearing the edge of their talent (a more experienced or talented driver would back of and get the drive out of the corner to pass on the next straight) so for me to stick my car on the racing line would lead to collision.

It is a hard one, do you put your pride and joy at risk and start coming back on line?

I won't be a hypocrite either - I know that I've left folk out to dry on a number of occasions, sometimes my doing because the mist is descending and I'm starting to forget that it's only a track day and other times because the driver behind me has the mist descending and to back off would lead to being hit.

Mac

[meatball]

All my problems were at Clarks......all involving trains of cars.
Getting stranded there didn't bother me that much as it gave me an area of free track.........before the next group caught me!
I may add.......I thought the driving standards were good......with only a couple of niggles???!!!

edit
Just to clarify this.......on a straight heading to a corner.....who has the right of way?
The person on the left or the person on the right waiting to come back in?
I always assumed the person on the left...until they invite the person on the right back in.
I've always waited to be "invited" back in or for a space to slot into........however I have seen people just carry on round the corner while out to the right........

[meatball]

I meant to say.......
If I did anything dodgy at the weekend.....someone gonna tell me......may save me a sore/expensive one!

[mac]

If your applying some common sense & a little self preservation then you'll be just fine.

That said if you do the above then you probably wounldn't track the car


Mac

[Shug]

The overtaker always has the onus on them to overtake - so the slower car always has the right of way. Overtaking is by concession only. Can be a little less clear cut than a road-based situation though.

As the person being overtaken, you have the right to move back onto your line if it's not dangerous to do so IMO. Like I say it's the overtaker's responsibility to overtake safely. When you are letting someone past, always lift slightly (don't slow down from your cornering speed, just don't plant the foot, they may also be pulling over to let someone even faster pass them first) so that the faster guy can get past quickly and safely. It takes a serious power differential (like 100bhp) for there to be enough room to just out-drag someone flat-out at KH anywhere but the main straight.

HTH

[Rory]

I drive a slower car, so got this regularly when doing KH trackdays.
You get used to it, and learn when there is a train of cars - ahem - 'simulating racing' who don't want you to bu88er up their progress. I've found that when really boxed in at a corner, it's safest to just drive round the inside of the corner, rather than just jumping back out on line in front of the guy at the back of the train who's holding on for dear life!

Slow down laps are the worst though. Very dificult to do effectively (little or no braking) when track is busy!

[VXJON]

Well done dezzy for posting this


Ive felt for a while that some of the SE guys have little consideration for new track users, it was one of the main reasons I didnt do more KH days in the vx last year and perfer the sprint/hillclimb type events.


Like dezzy I've been forced into the corner while 6-7 SE'ers force past into clarks, which is a very uncomfortable situation to be faced with as a inexperienced track user. Like most new guys I will always move out the way and let the faster cars past so no need to pile in, you'll get by at the next straight anyway. Yes its easy to say that the red mist was in place and you didnt notice, but its a trackday not a race session, so if your driving balls out on the edge I for one would rather not be on track at the same time.

[meatball]

If your applying some common sense & a little self preservation then you'll be just fine.

The problem is that what one person thinks is different to another........
Personally, I don't want to be in the middle of a train, I'd rather join the end and try to learn from the group......others do want back in asap.
The whole going round the inside of corners is alien to me as well.....I saw a couple of occasions where people were going round corners "rather close"....ie almost side by side......I think what happened was both cars hesitated and got left with no choice!

I'm not arguing....I'll just do what the group tell me is the "done thing".

[Shug]

so if your driving balls out on the edge I for one would rather not be on track at the same time.

So where else do we drive 'balls out' then? Room should be given for overtaking by overtakers and those being overtaken. I agree that sometimes it doesn't look good from the rookies point of view, but you honestly think that people are out to crash their cars? Be assertive and don't just sit there. How many times have you heard of cars crashing into each other on track on a good TD? I know of one, which was ironically caused by a) the rearmost driver not paying attention and b) someone braking early to let someone filter back into traffic!

I'm sorry, but driving on a track has risks. End of story. The rules are there to limit those risks & they work. If you're not on track to go to the limit of your capabilities or the cars, I don't see why you'd go on track in the first place?