What should Tom buy?

Post by **Shug** » Tue May 16, 2006 1:24 pm

...I know, I know....

Gareth · Post by **Gareth** » Tue May 16, 2006 9:27 pm

Aw naw!
The 160 sold.
Gutted I missed that one...

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Wed May 17, 2006 11:26 am

ed wrote:I think he should go for an s2, 160 is too quick and high miler s1 may go bang. he wants/needs something for them both to enjoy and an s2 aint so hardcore!

Tempted to disagree with you mr moderator, but i fear you may be right. I think with a 160 i might run out of talent before i run out of road

do love the lumpy idle though

.

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Wed May 17, 2006 11:28 am

Sanjoy wrote:

&^%*&^%$*&^%(**&*^*&

Post by **Shug** » Wed May 17, 2006 11:30 am

I don't think the S160 deserves it's fearsome rep, btw. It's usually got less torque than a standard S1. I can be a cantankerous beastie though and if you wanted a quick S1, you'd be better with a well modded example...

Something like the aforementioned PTP 160 or the like.

mac · Post by **mac** » Wed May 17, 2006 11:30 am

I think Tom should easy him self into the sports car scene.

An idea car to do this in is the Toyta Celica as it's not only pratical and way more quicker than his polo, it could also be used on trackday. The fact that it's front wheel drive just helps things as the natural understeering tendencies are ideal for folk getting use to extra power.

Mac

(drops straw)

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Wed May 17, 2006 11:31 am

Shug wrote:I don't think the S160 deserves it's fearsome rep, btw. It's usually got less torque than a standard S1. I can be a cantankerous beastie though and if you wanted a quick S1, you'd be better with a well modded example...

Something like the aforementioned PTP 160 or the like.

What about an S1 111s?

Post by **Shug** » Wed May 17, 2006 11:34 am

Perfect for ya IMHO. Engine is easier to live with and you can make mistakes and still be quick. CR box is by far the best thing about it though. Only downside is slightly higer revs at motorway pace.

Gotta watch oil temps if you track it though - would be very tempted to go the route I have and put a PRRT thermostat and oil/water cooler in at the same time....

GregR · Post by **GregR** » Wed May 17, 2006 1:11 pm

mac wrote:I think Tom should easy him self into the sports car scene.

An idea car to do this in is the Toyta Celica as it's not only pratical and way more quicker than his polo, it could also be used on trackday. The fact that it's front wheel drive just helps things as the natural understeering tendencies are ideal for folk getting use to extra power.

Mac

(drops straw)

i take it the red one didn't beat the reserve?

GregR · Post by **GregR** » Wed May 17, 2006 1:19 pm

Tom, if you're happy with an S1 in that you're thinking of a 111S (i.e. not concerned about looks/practicality/H*F) you're by definition happy with the standard S1 in Andy's post. It always sounded to me like it was more mileage/condition you were after, but correct me if I'm wrong.

To the unenlightened S1 driver (i.e. someone who's never spent more than 5 mins behind the wheel) you're unlikely to know the difference in feel of the S over the standard one to merit the extra ££.

If you can get an S for standard money, then go for it! Just throwing that in for further consideration

Best of luck matey, 'tis a hard choice! If I were to do it all again, i'd get the 160

. Hindsight's a wonderful thing, but when I was in the market, insurance; maintenance costs and chance of things breaking (which in my mind was proportional to the number of horses you had!) all took me away from similarly priced private sale 'S' and took me to a dealer warrantied standard car with low miles and FLSH.

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Wed May 17, 2006 1:32 pm

GregR wrote:Tom, if you're happy with an S1 in that you're thinking of a 111S (i.e. not concerned about looks/practicality/H*F) you're by definition happy with the standard S1 in Andy's post. It always sounded to me like it was more mileage/condition you were after, but correct me if I'm wrong.

To the unenlightened S1 driver (i.e. someone who's never spent more than 5 mins behind the wheel) you're unlikely to know the difference in feel of the S over the standard one to merit the extra ££.

If you can get an S for standard money, then go for it! Just throwing that in for further consideration

Best of luck matey, 'tis a hard choice! If I were to do it all again, i'd get the 160 . Hindsight's a wonderful thing, but when I was in the market, insurance; maintenance costs and chance of things breaking (which in my mind was proportional to the number of horses you had!) all took me away from similarly priced private sale 'S' and took me to a dealer warrantied standard car with low miles and FLSH.

Youre right with the mileage/condition thing. when i first started thinking about it the resale value was a top priority, hence need for low mileage FLSH example. Now i feel like i have two choices. Something like andy suggested(cheap cheap S1) and have cash left over for repairs. More intimate driving experience etc but a bit harder to live with(leaks, bigger sills(for stiff old barsteward to clamber over))and the H*F lurking in the back of my mind. OR S2 of some description. short roof, not so leaky, easier to live with etc. Because of extra weight, would need 135R or 111S at least. but still with K series worries. Maybe then 111R.

Basically, so many variables I'm having a helluva time trying to decide.

GregR · Post by **GregR** » Wed May 17, 2006 1:55 pm

ah, but the standard S2 could be hotted up very easily (all relative of course!), just look at Mac's! You could live with the standard car for a while, save up, then PTP?

Possibilities are endless, it just depends on how much money you can justify to yourself its worth spending on this kind of car

mac · Post by **mac** » Wed May 17, 2006 1:57 pm

Tom - There is F-all wrong with the output of a standard S2, it's marginally heavier than the S1 (what are we talking 100kg max - and I don't think it is anywhere near that)

S2 - 820kg (for instance) @ 118bhp = 143.90 bhp/tonne

S1 - 720kg @ 118bhp = 163.88 bhp/tonne.

So 20 brake horsepower per tonne.

Factor in driver considerations, Shug driving a Std S2 against me driving a std S1

Shug = 820+80kg = 900kg @ 118 = 131.1111 bhp/tonne

Me = 720kg + 140 kg = 860kg @ 118 = 137.2 bhp/tonne.

That works out at 6bhp/tonne difference.

The S2 isn't a heavy car - and power isn't everything. All you need to do is compare the K powered cars against the Toyota powered ones at Brunty's last week.

Mac

Gareth · Post by **Gareth** » Wed May 17, 2006 2:05 pm

There was a cheap yellow 111s locally to me. Mint but when I called about it, it was sold.

S160 for me.
However, has anyone noticed the Honda S1 on pistonheads for £15K???

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Wed May 17, 2006 2:08 pm

mac wrote:Tom - There is F-all wrong with the output of a standard S2, it's marginally heavier than the S1 (what are we talking 100kg max - and I don't think it is anywhere near that)

S2 - 820kg (for instance) @ 118bhp = 143.90 bhp/tonne

S1 - 720kg @ 118bhp = 163.88 bhp/tonne.

So 20 brake horsepower per tonne.

Factor in driver considerations, Shug driving a Std S2 against me driving a std S1

Shug = 820+80kg = 900kg @ 118 = 131.1111 bhp/tonne

Me = 720kg + 140 kg = 860kg @ 118 = 137.2 bhp/tonne.

That works out at 6bhp/tonne difference.

The S2 isn't a heavy car - and power isn't everything. All you need to do is compare the K powered cars against the Toyota powered ones at Brunty's last week.

Mac

Point taken

. I just need to sort myself out, get some balls, make my mind up and blo*dy get one.