Anyone else fancy punching BA in the face?

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robin
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Re: Anyone else fancy punching BA in the face?

Post by robin » Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:33 pm

At one end of the spectrum you have nationalised & unionised everything, "jobs" preserved at all costs and zero value for money (for the taxpayer or the customer). Forget performance monitoring. Anything that can be outsourced to a more sympathetic regime will be.

At the other end of the spectrum you have a modern hard-nosed employer who wants top-grade staff willing to put in the maximum effort (i.e. 80 hours a week if required), but they want maximum value for money too, so at the first sign of economic downturn they want to lay off everybody at a moment's notice. If pesky employment laws don't permit it, bend the rules and "performance manage" people out of the business by setting impossible targets.

We don't want to live in either of those extremes, I think.

Unions are one mechanism for trying to take a middle course. Employment laws are another.

We all lose if the law gets involved (except the lawyers ;-)).

The unions need to evolve to help guide companies to managing their workforce with compassion and common sense. The boards of our PLCs need to learn to be more open and honest so that the unions are more likely to trust them when they say that there is not enough business to warrant the current workforce or T&Cs.

Both BA and the workforce will benefit from reasonable terms and conditions - even if they're a little more expensive than the competition. Air travel is not all about cost - a lot of it is discretionary and people will buy what they think will be comfortable - not what's cheapest. So if for some reason the T&C's are unreasonable, both sides should co-operate to make them more reasonable.

I ought to be more sympathetic to the "vote labour" union cause, but I'm not. If their slogan was "be reasonable" I might be more interested :-)

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mikeep
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Re: Anyone else fancy punching BA in the face?

Post by mikeep » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:47 pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/bsp/hi ... 6_2-02.gif

Not quite sure why they are complaining about the pay.

£30k seams pretty good to me for serving coffee/tea and illustration how to put on a life jacket.

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Re: Anyone else fancy punching BA in the face?

Post by BiggestNizzy » Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:18 pm

mikeep wrote:http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/bsp/hi ... 6_2-02.gif

Not quite sure why they are complaining about the pay.

£30k seams pretty good to me for serving coffee/tea and illustration how to put on a life jacket.

It would appear that some are on a lot more than the average, how happy would you be if you where asked to take a 50% paycut and had to do more work ? even if you where overpayed in the first place, it will all end in tears and the workforce will take the brunt of it.
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Re: Anyone else fancy punching BA in the face?

Post by Scotty C » Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:40 pm

I wonder what Ryan air pay?
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Re: Anyone else fancy punching BA in the face?

Post by scott_e » Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:50 pm

Im annoyed, brother and family coming from Canada to Edinburgh via Heathrow on Friday/Saturday. Looks like he can get here but not get back again. My mother was the irate person on Radio Scotland Tuesday morning moaning about it .... IMO all strike action is ridiculous in this day and age especially at Christmas. Its designed purely to cause the max about of disruption.

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Re: Anyone else fancy punching BA in the face?

Post by graeme » Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:52 pm

My folks are stuck in Rome. They're not exactly upset. :)
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PhilA
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Re: Anyone else fancy punching BA in the face?

Post by PhilA » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:08 pm

i dislike unions because of striking.
agree with alot of comments on here.

if i were BA staff, id look over my shoulder at Globespan and think "awww, u know, its better getting paid something than nothing, so lets keep working through this recession and agree to have a review in 18 months time."

reasonable - but unlikely.
someone wants BLOOD! (did u see the woooping and yaying when the union leaders announced the strike vote results?)
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mac
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Re: Anyone else fancy punching BA in the face?

Post by mac » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:08 pm

Taking industrial action when it doesn't affect anyone isn't exactly effective though is it. It's all about brinkmanship, the management don't want it as they don't generate any income and the workers don't want it as they don't get paid. (I accept that there are a number of unions who will strike for the least think such as the softness of the toilet paper supplied)

One of the rail unions took their members out on strike against the company I work for......it didn't work for the union, they were striking becasue of job losses and when they threatened to go on strike were told "Knock yourself out, we have no work for the guys so it saves us paying them"

I think the strike lasted one day and saved the company a fair bit on wages.
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Re: Anyone else fancy punching BA in the face?

Post by RDH » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:39 pm

mac wrote:
I think the strike lasted one day and saved the company a fair bit on wages.
But in the case of BA the wages saved are tiny in comparison to the revenue/profits lost.
They've also got anywhere between a £3.7billion and £8billion pension deficit to fund from somewhere.

As someone who works for the airport industry - it will have an effect on us directly. Combined with Flyglobespan going under and the baggage handlers going on strike. Any chance we had of a payrise(even inflationary) next year has been blown out the water!
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Re: Anyone else fancy punching BA in the face?

Post by mac » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:45 pm

Nice bit of editing there Rob :wink:

I was using our company's situation to demostrate that industrial action that has no negative impact on the company does help the union get what they want.

I think we all know that the threat of industrial action is the real deal - no one want's to actually go on strike, but unfortunately sometimes you have to otherwise your bluff has been called.


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Re: Anyone else fancy punching BA in the face?

Post by DDtB » Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:32 pm

So we're agreed. All Unions are run by cnut.
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Re: Anyone else fancy punching BA in the face?

Post by Lazydonkey » Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:34 pm

mac wrote:no one want's to actually go on strike
except the communications workers unions, and the pilots unions,,,,,,
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Re: Anyone else fancy punching BA in the face?

Post by Rich H » Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:12 pm

BA Strike has been deemed illegal - BBC News.
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Scotty C
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Re: Anyone else fancy punching BA in the face?

Post by Scotty C » Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:14 pm

lets hope they go out on strike then BA can sack them all and employ all the globspan staff. :thumbsup
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Re: Anyone else fancy punching BA in the face?

Post by mikeep » Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:15 pm

Yeehaa!!!!! Best get the skis waxed then!!!! :P :lol: :P :lol:

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