A new low.....

[BiggestNizzy]

Simple Answer - Targets they have to give out so many fines to keep their numbers up, no speeders in this weather so they will be looking at other avenue's If your young your an easy target more likely to find something (even as tenuios as a dirty windscreen) on a young driver than some old guy who gets his skoosher bottle filled by the main dealer.

I don't know any cops who have "targets"


Chris

If they don't make enough arrests etc. They are seen not to be doing their job.

I know a couple who have been told they are not catching enough badguys.

[Matelotman]

Thanks Chris, helpful to get yourselves and Campbell's professional opinion and the RTA that it applies to. It is not my son this time, and I doubt if appealing against the ticket will achieve anything, but I would if I was Euan's father. Most of the time of course you put your hands up for knowingly breaking the law, ie speeding, but I found out after the farcical charges that were laid against Luke that you need not take it lying down. The PF threw both of them out, and hopefully had words with them regarding wasting his time.

As regards the patrol car's driving I will wait until the boys get home, they staid overnight, and get the full story. They were fuming at the time so could be exaggerating.

tut

I'm assuming that's what the charge would be - maybe it was a cheers easy ticket for the cop and he felt partucularly 'vigilant' that day or maybe he asked them to clean it and they argued the toss and talked themselves into a ticket ie. "but you didn't stop that other car" "haven't you got anything better to do?" "why you picking on us?" etc etc - remember, there's two sides to every story.

[Mikie711]

Thanks Chris, helpful to get yourselves and Campbell's professional opinion and the RTA that it applies to. It is not my son this time, and I doubt if appealing against the ticket will achieve anything, but I would if I was Euan's father. Most of the time of course you put your hands up for knowingly breaking the law, ie speeding, but I found out after the farcical charges that were laid against Luke that you need not take it lying down. The PF threw both of them out, and hopefully had words with them regarding wasting his time.

As regards the patrol car's driving I will wait until the boys get home, they staid overnight, and get the full story. They were fuming at the time so could be exaggerating.

tut

I'm assuming that's what the charge would be - maybe it was a cheers easy ticket for the cop and he felt partucularly 'vigilant' that day or maybe he asked them to clean it and they argued the toss and talked themselves into a ticket ie. "but you didn't stop that other car" "haven't you got anything better to do?" "why you picking on us?" etc etc - remember, there's two sides to every story.

Agree with that but sometimes they are just plain wrong. But you would never get a copper to admit it.

[Shug]

Thanks Chris, helpful to get yourselves and Campbell's professional opinion and the RTA that it applies to. It is not my son this time, and I doubt if appealing against the ticket will achieve anything, but I would if I was Euan's father. Most of the time of course you put your hands up for knowingly breaking the law, ie speeding, but I found out after the farcical charges that were laid against Luke that you need not take it lying down. The PF threw both of them out, and hopefully had words with them regarding wasting his time.

As regards the patrol car's driving I will wait until the boys get home, they staid overnight, and get the full story. They were fuming at the time so could be exaggerating.

tut

I'm assuming that's what the charge would be - maybe it was a cheers easy ticket for the cop and he felt partucularly 'vigilant' that day or maybe he asked them to clean it and they argued the toss and talked themselves into a ticket ie. "but you didn't stop that other car" "haven't you got anything better to do?" "why you picking on us?" etc etc - remember, there's two sides to every story.

So how does voicing an opinion on a stupid pull turn the offence from a cautioning one into a ticketable one? I don't quite get how the law allows for "arguing yourself into a ticket" It's an offence, or it's not.

[Rich H]

Perhaps arguing yourself out of 'disgression'? Still sucks though...

[BigD]

That is definately one I would not accept. He has 2 witnesses that can back up that he had been stopping and cleaning his windscreen regularly. Whilst he was in a queue of traffic he could not safely get out and clean it and was looking for somewhere to pull in and do just that when Robocop and his twin showed up.

I know it's a PITA to argue the case but if we all just lie down to these it'll just give them more firewood for the fire.

My scooshers do not work under -3, I carry a bottle of water so I can squirt the screen when stationary however if it get below -8 or thereabouts its a gamble as it can just instatnly freeze on the screen making it worse. Or the water is frozen inside the car and can't be used.

I also agree with Shug in that a reasoned debate should not then mean you get booked for having a differing opinion.

I get the feeling more and more these days that the Police (traffic officers) are out to get easy tickets and not there to educate the bad drivers. Someone makes a mistake and causes a pile up, ah that's ok, but if you are not interfering with traffic at all but speeding you get done. Doesn't make sense to me...........

I recently asked a Traffic Cop the question (whilst sitting in the back of their 5 series ) "What do you do about all these drivers constantly hogging the outside lane?"

Response: "Well if we pulled all of those in we wouldn't get any work done............."

So in other words they are out to book people and not educate bad drivers of which there are clearly many.

[Matelotman]

So how does voicing an opinion on a stupid pull turn the offence from a cautioning one into a ticketable one? I don't quite get how the law allows for "arguing yourself into a ticket" It's an offence, or it's not.

With most road traffic offences a fair amount discretion can be applied depending on how serious the offence is and the driver's receptiveness to the 'education' and advice given.

If a driver's attitude and demeanour obviously displays a "whatever" or "feck you" approach then he/she is unlikely to take onboard what is being said and continue committing the same offence (and probably others) as they drive off sticking two fingers up - points on someone's licence or a fine may make them think twice next time about committing such a heinous crime as having a dirty windscreen or illegal number plates or driving with foglights on or having a blown sidelight bulb etc etc etc.

As you say Shug, it's an offence, or it's not (traffic law is pretty black and white) - some cops may apply that philosophy and that may have been the case with Tut's son's friend - he committed an offence and he was punished accordingly.

[tut]

Agreed that if you are stopped by the police then you are stupid if you start ranting, its yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir, as you are normally guilty of breaking a law, even if it as stupid as having a dirty screen in conditions like these, or worse still, being enforced. That way you do stand a chance of getting off if it was a minor offence. Been there, seen it, done it.

However in this case there was no discussion, Euan was booked straight away, they were not interested that he had no washers and had stopped to clean it when he could. If Ian had been driving it would have been a two way discussion probably ending up with him in handcuffs, but Euan is completely different. Unlike our cops on here who would have probably advised to TRY and keep it clean, as who the hell wants to drive a car deliberately when they can not see out, I reckon they had left the station that morning with a one track mind as to what they would be doing that day.

As he is only 18, he is on a six point limit, so from a clean record he is now half way there thanks to the above attitude from cops that you hope never to meet.

tut

[robin]

Where does the burden of proof lie in a case like this? How dirty is too dirty?

Cheers,
Robin

[Scotty C]

I had a wee bump the other week and drove the pick up back to work. Im glad it wasnt raining.

[thinfourth]

I had a wee bump the other week and drove the pick up back to work. Im glad it wasnt raining.

Not the lesbians again

[scottishselise]

Where does the burden of proof lie in a case like this? How dirty is too dirty?

Cheers,
Robin

Discretion bit like any of their work unfortunately. Which means they could make anything up and all to be trusted equally...

[Scotty C]

totally my fault, ran into the back of a dumper truck.

[tut]

Scotty, Luke says he is not likely to catch you up now.

tut

[r10crw]

tip for today, 25% mix of meths into your washers will stop them freezing. never had issues with the pump only a slightly sqeeky windscreen. this is normal in norway for years and don think combustion should be and issue.
craig.