Back Saga

[tut]

Mind you they did not make as good a job on this, nor the thumb from a few years ago.



tut

[j2 lot]

Don't have the time or patience to give a blow by blow account of my back saga and will only get annoyed again if I did, but, briefly:

Early last year I got back pain that after a couple of weeks deteriorated badly and ended up with a blue light trip and 6 days in hospital.
3 slipped discs and stenosis needed lots of morphine/ co-codamol/ amitryptiline /ibuprofen to even exist day to day.

Was to get an op at the Royal in Glasgow, they referred back to Lanarkshire as waiting list was too long, then scheduled for the Golden Jubilee who decided the op was too complicated for them to carry out as they didn't have the right equipment.
After much complaining and frustration with the NHS, they scheduled an op for March this year - over a year after the initial problem. They gave a 50/50 chance of improvement and a 1 in 4 chance of causing more damage. Being back at work and steadily improving I decided to pass on the op and am now almost back to normal, with the only symptoms now being occasional leg pain and loss of sensation in my left leg.
Best advice/ treatment was privately through BUPA and both they and my GP supported the decision not to get the op as at that stage it was only 'future proofing' and if it ever goes again take I will take the chance of the op then rather than risk it now.
I have nothing but praise for some of the professionals in the NHS but the procedures and organisation are shockingly bad.

Hope all goes well for you - I feel your pain

[kerryxeg]

Sometimes there is no alternative to surgery as in my case, either life in a wheelchair or take the chance even if it could go wrong.

Had permanent back ache for the last thirty years so just had to live with it.

tut

ps:- all done under NHS at Aberdeen Hospital, but they were fantastic, took a while to pin the cause down, but then they operated the next day.

I don't disagree, but based on the comments I've had from osteopaths, NHS tend to take the view that it's an op or nothing. If it lasts long enough then they investigate further, but unfortunately time can be a factor. I can't help but think that if the NHS were a bit more open minded and the responsive some of the ops could be avoided.

Taking a balanced view I guess the majority of people who go to a doc with a back related pain will recover over time, but there will be a few that get worse and for them it may not be so easy to fix..

[renmure]

Taking a balanced view I guess the majority of people who go to a doc with a back related pain will recover over time, but there will be a few that get worse and for them it may not be so easy to fix..

I see loads of folk with back related pain in a professional capacity. If everyone who said they were in pain 10/10 were referred for an MRI then the NHS would be bust by the end of the week.

(Almost) everyone will get back pain of some description. (Almost) everyone will get better in a fairly unremarkable manner with the correct management, whether that involves advice, exercise, medication, mobilisation, manipulation, alteration in daily activity or a combination of all these. Those who don't are by far the exception.

I have seem MRI scans where there are massive disc protrusions, yet the patient has no pain or symptoms. I have seen others where everything looks perfect, and yet the patient is in obvious agony. My dad spent his whole career in neurosurgery in the NHS and it is true that the last thing the surgeon wants to do is operate.

ETA: thats not making excuses for bad management but more making the point that it isn't particularly easy at the start of the process to identify folk who will end up needing operations or more intensive intervention at the end of it.

[campbell]

Something that particularly stuck in my mind during Lisa's first consultation with Dr Boyle (at local practice) was his comment that she should see a neurosurgeon in preference to an osteopath.

What's that all about then?

[renmure]

Something that particularly stuck in my mind during Lisa's first consultation with Dr Boyle (at local practice) was his comment that she should see a neurosurgeon in preference to an osteopath.

What's that all about then?

You mean an Orthopod rather than an Osteopath?

Osteopath does a bit of manipulation (much like myself or a chiropracter)
Orthopod, or Orthopedic Surgeon does surgery on... err... musculosceletal conditions.

Think your GP might have been a bit "unfortunate" in the choice of words. In the past you would perhaps associate Orthopedic surgeons with hips, knees, shoulders, broken bones, torn cartilage, trauma etc... and may associate Neurosurgeons with brains, spinal nerves, discs, backs, skull trauma etc. In reality there is a big overlap, although the more specialised you become in the more delicate areas of neurosurgery with microscopes and sharp scalpels the less time you spend with the hammer, chisel and bone files doing Ortho stuff

[campbell]

woops, yes Jim, sorry, Orthopod

Lisa spent some quality time with an Osteopath in Aberdeen and also in Skinflats nr Grangemouth (might actually have been a pure physio that one), in the early stages of her back complaint. Both made a valuable, albeit short-term, difference to her discomfort.

[GregR]

Sheesh even I can tell that x-ray doesn't look good. I think this is where PMI comes into it's own for chronic conditions.

Its an MRI, they cost a packet (£1m +) and are completely over-subscribed. Sad thing is that the poor old NHS can't get everyone that needs an MRI an MRI.

I have real sympathy for the OP, but banging away at the NHS isn't the solution. In my experience, its easy to look at a final MRI and go "look, I told you I was not well" (copyright Milligan, Spike's headstone) but the clinical picture that leads up to an MRI with that outcome is rarely textbook. As Jim says, some people can have massive protrusions and be fine. A guy I sit opposite eventually had to to have a discectomy at C4 and he was on the lifts on Whistler when the radiologist called him and said, "don't ski!" Likewise you can have someone with a completely normal MRI who is bedbound.

Things are seldom black and white, and I think the NHS does a chuffing marvellous job on a sh!tty budget.

[AJT]

Thanks for the good wishes, I am sure everything will be fine and I will soon be leaping in and out of my car as I used too, OK will take a lot more care to make very as sure as possible this does not happen again.
it is always interesting to read about other peoples experiences, just goes to show that there is rarely a single solution to these types of events.
Did not mean to come across as bashing the NHS, utterly no complaints on how I was treated when I needed an emergency appendectomy 10 years ago, but on this occasion I do feel a bit more information and better explanation on what could be going on with my back by the physio would have gone a long way to make me feel happier.
The decision to go for an op was made after a good discussion with the surgeon, he did say that I would recover over a few months with the help of physio and exercise, the real killer was his opinion that there would be a 50% chance of a reoccurrence but with the op I would be better sooner and the chance of a reoccurrence should be less than 15%.
Hope to check in again on Sunday and will give an update on how the op went.

[Noops]

Sheesh even I can tell that x-ray doesn't look good. I think this is where PMI comes into it's own for chronic conditions.

Its an MRI, they cost a packet (£1m +) and are completely over-subscribed. Sad thing is that the poor old NHS can't get everyone that needs an MRI an MRI.

I have real sympathy for the OP, but banging away at the NHS isn't the solution. In my experience, its easy to look at a final MRI and go "look, I told you I was not well" (copyright Milligan, Spike's headstone) but the clinical picture that leads up to an MRI with that outcome is rarely textbook. As Jim says, some people can have massive protrusions and be fine. A guy I sit opposite eventually had to to have a discectomy at C4 and he was on the lifts on Whistler when the radiologist called him and said, "don't ski!" Likewise you can have someone with a completely normal MRI who is bedbound.

Things are seldom black and white, and I think the NHS does a chuffing marvellous job on a sh!tty budget.

Sad thing is that the poor old NHS can't get everyone that needs an MRI an MRI. I agree with the above ,having had to wait a long time on a MRI, having managed to get one last week for my chest pain.... and I'm having another nil by mouth this morning off again for a oesophageal function test later this morning and yes "Things are seldom black and white, and I think the NHS does a chuffing marvellous job on a sh!tty budget."

[alicrozier]

Private Medical pays...and takes priority over NHS. Not saying it's right or wrong, just glad I had it.

When I had my neck op (C6 cervical discectomy, 10 years ago) the neurosurgeon rekoned I'd have waited at least a month to see him then 6 months for MRI and another consult then further wait for op...by which time I'd have been in a wheelchair and irrecoverable nerve damage. As it was, all done from referral, MRI to op in a couple of weeks.

For me the op decision was a no brainer, other tratments hadn't worked. A risk of course but it restored an almost normal quality of life and still able to compete at top level sport.

[BigD]

Sheesh even I can tell that x-ray doesn't look good. I think this is where PMI comes into it's own for chronic conditions.

Its an MRI, they cost a packet (£1m +) and are completely over-subscribed. Sad thing is that the poor old NHS can't get everyone that needs an MRI an MRI.

Sorry sir, I'll go and stand in the corner and have a word with myself.

When I had my neck op (C6 cervical discectomy, 10 years ago) the neurosurgeon rekoned I'd have waited at least a month to see him then 6 months for MRI and another consult then further wait for op...by which time I'd have been in a wheelchair and irrecoverable nerve damage. As it was, all done from referral, MRI to op in a couple of weeks.

Ali you are typical of anyone I've ever spoken to who has used their PMI. Basically it just gets you to jump the queue and alot of the time it is the same doctor or specialist you would have seen on the NHS. Had one lady who's son almost died as they could not find what was wrong with him until she got him looked at privately through her PMI. It was some sort of exotic parasite he had.

I have no issues with the Doctors in the NHS (as stated above they do private work too) and I agree that they do a great job on the budget they have. It's more of a political thing than anything else. If they had the budget there would be no place for PMI.

[alicrozier]

Yup, for me it would have been the same Consultant and at that time MRI (I was one of the first in the then new one at Foresterhill) and even op was done at NHS hospital as better equipped. Just as you say, jumping the queue...and then private room.

[tut]

i could not afford bupa after i left bristows, but fortunately as a war veteran i get priority or they would send me private tut

[AJT]

Well the operation went really well, was out of theatre about 9 ish and back in my room about 11.
Have spent the day dozing on and off but have also been able to get up to go to the loo and take a walk round the room.
Pains and numbness in my leg are nearly all gone so fingers crossed once the operation site has healed all will be back to normal.