Having been totally amazed when sat next to you in N1 TUT god only knows what this car will be like - look forward to seeing it fly round the track in the flesh.
Ken.
Deep breaths...........
i prefer the NA but let me explain. In the NA, you have what feels like a race car engine. It builds from tickover to limiter in every gear, its a pleasure to rev.Andy G wrote:mckeann wrote:supercharger, aka the 'talent masker'
What did you make of the difference between n/a and s/c?
In the SC, you have bucket loads of torque at 5000rpm, then torque dies off more noticably. In effect, on track, you come out of a corner with loads of ooomph, then it feels a bit limp at the top end. You change gear, and the revs drop to 7000rpm, so you miss the big torque push in every subsequent gear.
I did consider the SC, but my head said no before, now thanfully my heart is agreeing with my head for a change.
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deano15482
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Not sure about N1 TUT Ali, but it is a possibility.
I bought the Jackson S/C direct from the USA, friend of a friend is a Loadmaster in the RAF, so he bought it back directly on a C130, so no customs, VAT rubbish etc. Cost £1750 including a K-Pro ECU, but the equivalent S/C kit from the UK Link up installers is £4K, or £3.5K without the K-Pro.
Ricky and I fitted it last week, it almost went problem free if it had not been for power to the starter motor, and he had to adapt the pulleys that came with the kit, but for the next one it would be a days work, two at the most.
I actually ordered the wrong kit, I thought the USA Accura RSX kit was the equivalent of the Civic Type-R JDM, but it is actually for the Integra DC5. This means that the S/C body lies flatter, and at first sight looks as if it will not fit in the space, but it goes in fine. However the good news is that it is on a better inlet manifold that gives an extra 15hp so I have been told.
We only finished it on Thursday, so it should have been well down on the full 300-315 that it could deliver, as the JDM engine has a smaller crankshaft pulley than the UK one, so runs at 5psi instead of 8psi. Plus I had a basic map in and the original manifold and exhaust as opposed to Jim's purpose designed one that Craig has.
However on the few laps that I opened it up to 8500rpm before I was twice black flagged, it flew past everything, and on the Dunlop straight I was revving out in 5th and having to go into 6th, the only car to do so, so lord knows what speed that was (the speedo was waving around the clock).
I managed to talk my way back into a third time on track by lowering the rev cut out, then went around in only fifth and sixth. The performance and torque was still so good that I was still passing most cars, Walshy and 4mm excepted of course. I was going through the Chicane in 5th as opposed to everybody elses 2nd, then immediately into 6th at the start of the Pit Straight to please the noise sensor on the gantry part way along.
I could have carried on like this for the rest of the day and still enjoyed myself, but at 1215 the nearside front wheel hub nut came loose, shredded the MMC disk on the calliper, and we thought collapsed the wheel bearing. We tightened it up and I went out for another lap, but the vibration and wobble was too much. So it sat in the garage for the afternoon, and I paxed or was offered cars to drive. For that, many thanks to Ed for entrusting me with his fantastic new car, which as he will testify as a pax I took it fairly gently with, and to Scotty, whose car is handling and going very well, so I drove that more like my own, but kept it out of the gravel(BG).
I drove my car back to the Hotel at days end, but ready to stop at any time if it got worse, then called the AA Sunday morning, and arranged for a low loader around 1300 so that I could still go to the show. Got a mobile call just as I was leaving Donnie at 1300 from an AA VAN, to say that he had been at the Hotel for an hour, and had fixed the problem, the offside front wheel nuts were only finger tight.
So this turned out to be the biggest red herring ever for me, and made me feel a right twat, as we had all assumed that the problem was obviously the N/S hub/bearing, whereas when Tony, Sinclaire's mechanic, tightened up the nut he had actually fixed it. When he changed the MMC disk for a spare steel one, I think somebody who was trying to help, maybe me, loosened off the other front wheel nuts whilst it was on the ground, for the changeover of that disk to steel as well, but we left the MMC on.
So I was able to drive home after all, but was behind Scotty with his trailered 340R, and the other Elises. I passed Scotty sometime later, and as my speedo only reads in KMH, I converted to keep just under 90 tuts. However my method of 5/8ths, half it and add a bit, does not work very well, as a Patrol Car sitting on the bank of the A1(M) radar gunned me, then followed and stopped me. He asked me if I would step out of the car and sit in the back of his, but getting out of a LHD car with the roof on was a bugger, so he helped me out. He was a young guy, the driver near to retirement, but they could not have been more pleasant and helpful, so if you are going to get booked, better it is that way. He explained the workings of the gun, calibration etc, then showed that I had been clocked at 97 tuts. I knew about the over 100 being an automatic summons for speeding and dangerous driving, but not that the standard 3 pts and £60 goes from 70 to 95, and that there is a separate band of 95-100 that is a summons for speeding, but nothing else, which is what I got.
What was a pity, is that the young guy wrote the ticket whilst I was talking to the driver, but I was then in the car for around 30 mins chatting to them. They already knew that I was a disabled War Pensioner, so were interested in what I had been doing in life. I bought in that I had hel d Superintendant rank when I was attached to the Thames Valley Police Force in the early 80's, I was training their Observers when they got their first helicopter. Turned out that he was based there then, and that I had trained his friend.
Net result was that they would have lowered the speed on the ticket to 95, but it had already been written and carboned, so could not be changed. However he said that with his report, it was highly unlikely that I would lose my licence, and if I went to Court, to use the crutches and the disability to show that a car was needed for me to get around. Also that they do not really bother with drivers doing 80-85 in good conditions, it was dry and sunny at that point, so if I stuck to 120kph I would be OK. Just as well, as 20 miles up the road, about 25 miles South of Scotch Corner, there was another one parked up.
As I said, two nicer cops you could not meet, and he helped me back into the car when I left, so no complaints, my own fault, so hope that it is just points as I have a clean licence.
I then had a great drive home along the A68, almost empty of traffic, a few snow blizzards, but just a one gear drive in 6th, with 5th for roundabouts. I preach to Craig that a S/C is way over the top for the road, it is there for the track, but I have changed my mind. You just dont need to use it at any where near its capabilities, but the pulling power in 6th is incredible, and it is so smooth, so gradients and bends just do not count. Plus the power delivery on slippery roads means almost no throttle changes, as you just seem to stroke the pedal as oposed to pressing it.
I thought that the fuel consumption would suffer, but I averaged 32mpg on the run home at a good pace. Now looking forward to getting out at KH and Teeside, hopefully for the whole sessions. In the meantime I will get hold of the correct sized crankshaft pulley, and hopefully some mapping.
tut
I bought the Jackson S/C direct from the USA, friend of a friend is a Loadmaster in the RAF, so he bought it back directly on a C130, so no customs, VAT rubbish etc. Cost £1750 including a K-Pro ECU, but the equivalent S/C kit from the UK Link up installers is £4K, or £3.5K without the K-Pro.
Ricky and I fitted it last week, it almost went problem free if it had not been for power to the starter motor, and he had to adapt the pulleys that came with the kit, but for the next one it would be a days work, two at the most.
I actually ordered the wrong kit, I thought the USA Accura RSX kit was the equivalent of the Civic Type-R JDM, but it is actually for the Integra DC5. This means that the S/C body lies flatter, and at first sight looks as if it will not fit in the space, but it goes in fine. However the good news is that it is on a better inlet manifold that gives an extra 15hp so I have been told.
We only finished it on Thursday, so it should have been well down on the full 300-315 that it could deliver, as the JDM engine has a smaller crankshaft pulley than the UK one, so runs at 5psi instead of 8psi. Plus I had a basic map in and the original manifold and exhaust as opposed to Jim's purpose designed one that Craig has.
However on the few laps that I opened it up to 8500rpm before I was twice black flagged, it flew past everything, and on the Dunlop straight I was revving out in 5th and having to go into 6th, the only car to do so, so lord knows what speed that was (the speedo was waving around the clock).
I managed to talk my way back into a third time on track by lowering the rev cut out, then went around in only fifth and sixth. The performance and torque was still so good that I was still passing most cars, Walshy and 4mm excepted of course. I was going through the Chicane in 5th as opposed to everybody elses 2nd, then immediately into 6th at the start of the Pit Straight to please the noise sensor on the gantry part way along.
I could have carried on like this for the rest of the day and still enjoyed myself, but at 1215 the nearside front wheel hub nut came loose, shredded the MMC disk on the calliper, and we thought collapsed the wheel bearing. We tightened it up and I went out for another lap, but the vibration and wobble was too much. So it sat in the garage for the afternoon, and I paxed or was offered cars to drive. For that, many thanks to Ed for entrusting me with his fantastic new car, which as he will testify as a pax I took it fairly gently with, and to Scotty, whose car is handling and going very well, so I drove that more like my own, but kept it out of the gravel(BG).
I drove my car back to the Hotel at days end, but ready to stop at any time if it got worse, then called the AA Sunday morning, and arranged for a low loader around 1300 so that I could still go to the show. Got a mobile call just as I was leaving Donnie at 1300 from an AA VAN, to say that he had been at the Hotel for an hour, and had fixed the problem, the offside front wheel nuts were only finger tight.
So this turned out to be the biggest red herring ever for me, and made me feel a right twat, as we had all assumed that the problem was obviously the N/S hub/bearing, whereas when Tony, Sinclaire's mechanic, tightened up the nut he had actually fixed it. When he changed the MMC disk for a spare steel one, I think somebody who was trying to help, maybe me, loosened off the other front wheel nuts whilst it was on the ground, for the changeover of that disk to steel as well, but we left the MMC on.
So I was able to drive home after all, but was behind Scotty with his trailered 340R, and the other Elises. I passed Scotty sometime later, and as my speedo only reads in KMH, I converted to keep just under 90 tuts. However my method of 5/8ths, half it and add a bit, does not work very well, as a Patrol Car sitting on the bank of the A1(M) radar gunned me, then followed and stopped me. He asked me if I would step out of the car and sit in the back of his, but getting out of a LHD car with the roof on was a bugger, so he helped me out. He was a young guy, the driver near to retirement, but they could not have been more pleasant and helpful, so if you are going to get booked, better it is that way. He explained the workings of the gun, calibration etc, then showed that I had been clocked at 97 tuts. I knew about the over 100 being an automatic summons for speeding and dangerous driving, but not that the standard 3 pts and £60 goes from 70 to 95, and that there is a separate band of 95-100 that is a summons for speeding, but nothing else, which is what I got.
What was a pity, is that the young guy wrote the ticket whilst I was talking to the driver, but I was then in the car for around 30 mins chatting to them. They already knew that I was a disabled War Pensioner, so were interested in what I had been doing in life. I bought in that I had hel d Superintendant rank when I was attached to the Thames Valley Police Force in the early 80's, I was training their Observers when they got their first helicopter. Turned out that he was based there then, and that I had trained his friend.
Net result was that they would have lowered the speed on the ticket to 95, but it had already been written and carboned, so could not be changed. However he said that with his report, it was highly unlikely that I would lose my licence, and if I went to Court, to use the crutches and the disability to show that a car was needed for me to get around. Also that they do not really bother with drivers doing 80-85 in good conditions, it was dry and sunny at that point, so if I stuck to 120kph I would be OK. Just as well, as 20 miles up the road, about 25 miles South of Scotch Corner, there was another one parked up.
As I said, two nicer cops you could not meet, and he helped me back into the car when I left, so no complaints, my own fault, so hope that it is just points as I have a clean licence.
I then had a great drive home along the A68, almost empty of traffic, a few snow blizzards, but just a one gear drive in 6th, with 5th for roundabouts. I preach to Craig that a S/C is way over the top for the road, it is there for the track, but I have changed my mind. You just dont need to use it at any where near its capabilities, but the pulling power in 6th is incredible, and it is so smooth, so gradients and bends just do not count. Plus the power delivery on slippery roads means almost no throttle changes, as you just seem to stroke the pedal as oposed to pressing it.
I thought that the fuel consumption would suffer, but I averaged 32mpg on the run home at a good pace. Now looking forward to getting out at KH and Teeside, hopefully for the whole sessions. In the meantime I will get hold of the correct sized crankshaft pulley, and hopefully some mapping.
tut
Neil
It is a shame that you did not get the chance to take mine out at Donnie, and use the whole rev range. If you get the chance, give it a try before you make a decision.
I agree about the cam changeover, you do not seem to notice the VTEC coming in, but the S/C is there everywhere in the rev range, and the needle just whips around the clock. The proof is as I said in my previous post, which took a long time typing, so a lot of replies came in between.
There seems to be a difference in Ed's and mine, could be because it is from a different kit, but I was revving out in 5th on the Dunlop straight, and using 6th for a while before the Chicane, on the two laps that I managed to get away with it. Even when I had to use 5th through the Chicane, then 6th for the rest, it was still staying with or passing the other cars that I was with. However they would have been lower powered cars, as I would not have been able to compete with my own spec cars with that limitation.
Until I get full power, you should also try to get a go in Craigs, as his is probably another level up.
tut
It is a shame that you did not get the chance to take mine out at Donnie, and use the whole rev range. If you get the chance, give it a try before you make a decision.
I agree about the cam changeover, you do not seem to notice the VTEC coming in, but the S/C is there everywhere in the rev range, and the needle just whips around the clock. The proof is as I said in my previous post, which took a long time typing, so a lot of replies came in between.
There seems to be a difference in Ed's and mine, could be because it is from a different kit, but I was revving out in 5th on the Dunlop straight, and using 6th for a while before the Chicane, on the two laps that I managed to get away with it. Even when I had to use 5th through the Chicane, then 6th for the rest, it was still staying with or passing the other cars that I was with. However they would have been lower powered cars, as I would not have been able to compete with my own spec cars with that limitation.
Until I get full power, you should also try to get a go in Craigs, as his is probably another level up.
tut
Cowan
She is fully running again now, but will change over the upgraded wheel hub bolts that I got from Geary for the originals. The garage should have advised you of this when the car was serviced, as it was put out as a Lotus Bulletin when they became aware of the problem.
Not sure what the next track day is, either Teeside on April 23rd, or KH if one comes up before then.
Trust that you are enjoying your new car?
tut
She is fully running again now, but will change over the upgraded wheel hub bolts that I got from Geary for the originals. The garage should have advised you of this when the car was serviced, as it was put out as a Lotus Bulletin when they became aware of the problem.
Not sure what the next track day is, either Teeside on April 23rd, or KH if one comes up before then.
Trust that you are enjoying your new car?
tut
Thanks all.
For those that asked, I really do not know what hp or tq she is putting out. Ricky tried the car on his R/R, but he could not hold the wheels down hard enough, and thinks it would take some of us sitting on the car.
Craig is booked in for mapping with him this Saturday, but will try to change it to the next one, as Corbie is coming back up then to do some more mapping.
If it does not work at Rickys, then I could use Wallace's Dastek R/R in Aberdeen, but it would make more sense to change the pulley first, and let Corbie sort out a safe/suitable map.
If the experts are correct, then mine could well be a unique fitting with the Jackson DC5 S/C in an Elise. With the correct pulley, map, but restrictive exhaust manifold/backbox in place, it should be a good 300hp, with Jims complete system maybe 320.
tut
For those that asked, I really do not know what hp or tq she is putting out. Ricky tried the car on his R/R, but he could not hold the wheels down hard enough, and thinks it would take some of us sitting on the car.
Craig is booked in for mapping with him this Saturday, but will try to change it to the next one, as Corbie is coming back up then to do some more mapping.
If it does not work at Rickys, then I could use Wallace's Dastek R/R in Aberdeen, but it would make more sense to change the pulley first, and let Corbie sort out a safe/suitable map.
If the experts are correct, then mine could well be a unique fitting with the Jackson DC5 S/C in an Elise. With the correct pulley, map, but restrictive exhaust manifold/backbox in place, it should be a good 300hp, with Jims complete system maybe 320.
tut
Yep.. she's doing fine. (almost 2000 miles completed..) It went back last week to get a water leak sorted out. i.e. footwell soaking wet.. turns out it was a faulty seal on the pedal box and the wiring loom + somewhere else.. can't remember exactly where.. so the "good guys at Hexham" sealed everything properly and had done so with the clam off, and then conducted a series of tests. Apart from that she's running very well indeed. The engine is starting to loosen up now.. but I think it will be benefitting from lotuses own engine upgrade in the near future.. I do miss the outright top end oompf I had in the elise.. due to the extra weight.tut wrote:Cowan
She is fully running again now, but will change over the upgraded wheel hub bolts that I got from Geary for the originals. The garage should have advised you of this when the car was serviced, as it was put out as a Lotus Bulletin when they became aware of the problem.
Not sure what the next track day is, either Teeside on April 23rd, or KH if one comes up before then.
Trust that you are enjoying your new car?
tut
God knows what your elise must be like now to drive..
The midrange power in the exige S from 50mph in third is seriously grin enducing and it's helped with benefitting from longer gear ratios as opposed to those in the JDM elise you've now got. There was always an annoying gap in the power at that speed in the honda elise ,but probably not anymore since you've supercharged it..
To me personally the exige is better in almost every way, but it does lack the rawness of the elise. Splitting hairs I guess...
Anyway...
I look forward to seeing you with the elise in action at some point.. so please keep me posted and I'll take a run up whenever you're at a trackday!
All the best with her and yourself,
Cowan
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haggis catcher
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