N3 TUT

Rich H · Post by **Rich H** » Wed May 30, 2007 3:22 pm

ed wrote:I (should read RObin ) am still trying to work out whats up with my shafts. For some reason there appears to be a large amount of lateral movement.
So will look at options once we have established whats up with them.

Is it the shaft moving through the joint or is it just the joints themselves?

Is it actually broken yet?

Post by ed » Wed May 30, 2007 3:26 pm

Thanks for that tut.

Rich i dont think anything has broken and i still have drive....

I'm heading round to robins tonight to try and work out whats up with it. Will have a better idea soon hopefully!

cheers Ed

tut · Post by **tut** » Wed May 30, 2007 3:33 pm

No way with the Gumball Neil, not interested in straight line speed, just the bendys.

I have seen Walshy's "usual" pace on the road, in fact before he stopped doing his road courses, Scotty and I have probably done more of those than most. Doubt if you would let him get away if he was coming.

As for the track, not that I could admit it on here of course, but if the only advantage that I had over you was the S/C, then it would not count.

Not that I would ever stop trying, and still not too old to learn.........

tut

tut · Post by **tut** » Wed May 30, 2007 3:40 pm

Ed

Robin knows the symptoms of mine, need to know if yours are the same.

As you say, it is not a snapped drive, as then you dont go nowhwere.

However any damaged CV joint displays the same symptoms. You will get vibration, but it will be variable. Most evident when you apply power, less so as you ease off, and probably none if you put the clutch in and cruise at 60.

If you have lost a circlip inside the boot, could be different, but as long as you are sure that it is a driveshaft problem, strip down the most likely side, and start from there.

tut

fd · Post by fd » Wed May 30, 2007 9:43 pm

I had a look at Eds car the other week at the great Lawrenzos gaff . . .

On Ed's car the nearside driveshaft itself moves about 1.2->2 inches in and out of both inner and outer joints . . . but the joints themselves are not moving anywhere (of course) . . .

The offside shaft seems ok but has quite a bit of play - perhaps more than I'd expect . . .

I believe it's been intimated this is movement is normal . . . however I cannot see how that can be if the outer joint is actually a true CV (what it looks like externally) - simply because CV joints have no push/pull movement ability as the central spline is locked in the centre of the sphere of movement (if you'd ever taken one to bits - it's obvious why) . . . thus . . . I suspect whatever retains the driveshaft in the outer CV joint has failed . . . and the shaft is slipping in and out of the splined socket in the outer CV joint . . . whereas the inner tripod joint is behaving normally . . .

It won't last long like that and is perhaps not surprisingly starting to make noises . . . the spline will strip in time as it's not fully engaged in the socket . . .

As a guess . . .

Anyway . . . the driveshaft angles are pretty crazy on that car . . . it's perhaps easy to see why there are CV/Tripod joint failures . . . most cars run them almost straight under 99% use case . . . I guess more 'hero' sized joints may help as Neil has mentioned

Fd

robin · Post by **robin** » Wed May 30, 2007 10:11 pm

Measured the play tonight - nearside shaft has 18mm or so of lateral play which is obviously bananas. Offside has more like 5mm of play, which is more than I would expect compared to both Tut's shafts which I had the pleasure of fondling over the weekend and also the shafts on the RLC which I have fondled recently.

We haven't had any hard limits on how much play should be allowed from any source, though Martin Edwards did send a good email describing how it all fits together in this application and what the various dimensions are.

I can only conclude that on the nearside the snap ring/circlip in the outboard CV is either missing, broken or maybe has never been engaged for some reason.

I am at a loss as to where the play comes from on the offside, unless it's basically the same problem as the nearside but the movement is being limited by the hanger bearing/hangar joint for some reason.

I have suggested to Ed that he gets both shafts removed and stripped to locate the problem before doing much more with the car, and to that end a plan is in motion ...

Cheers,
Robin

tut · Post by **tut** » Wed May 30, 2007 11:14 pm

Robin

No choice, both near and offside driveshafts need to be removed and examined, ie boots off, drive shafts separated from CV joints, all CV joints washed out with petrol, and bearings and grooves in the tripod housing examined for wear or breakup. Inner tripod bearings are obvious, as are the outer CV bearings, but look closely at the grooves in the tripod CV housing for wear on the three grooves.

tut

tut · Post by **tut** » Thu May 31, 2007 12:52 am

Sanjoy

Nope, P111 DLB

Did the deal tonight, so John is flying down to Liverpool on Saturday to pick it up.

Not a bad idea to have your local garage who works on your car, to have an Elise of his own.

Not that it ever entered my mind of course..................

tut

tut · Post by **tut** » Thu May 31, 2007 12:57 am

Robin

Forgot to mention, also the intermediate hanger bearing, it will have a little lateral play, but not too much, and should be smooth and noise free.

tut

tut · Post by **tut** » Thu May 31, 2007 1:01 am

Got my car back this afternoon, smooth as a rat catchers glove again.

tut

graeme · Post by **graeme** » Thu May 31, 2007 8:43 am

mckeann wrote:I'll give you a good fight on the track tut, but will sit at my usual pace on the road run. We dont want TT turning into the gumball 3000

Amen to that, matey!

Andy G · Post by **Andy G** » Thu May 31, 2007 9:18 am

tut wrote:Got my car back this afternoon, smooth as a rat catchers glove again.

tut

Awesome

Long may it stay that way

Post by ed » Thu May 31, 2007 9:42 am

Thanks to Fergus and tut for your input and Robin for your all your help so far. We have decided to get the car towed to Dans on Monday to carry out most of the above on my parts and labour warranty!

The plan being to collect the car in time for Cadwell on the 24th!
Fingers crossed Dan doesnt find anything else wrong with it and it will be sorted in time!

cheers Ed

jamie · Post by **jamie** » Thu May 31, 2007 10:27 am

It better be ready for Cadwell - have yet to see it run in anger

GregR · Post by **GregR** » Thu May 31, 2007 11:01 am

fingers well & truly crossed for you Ed, and congrats on getting the car back Tut.

... and people said K-series ownership was fraught!!