Independence SE Poll

[woody]

Given were constantly being told it's not about Salmond, think we can agree it's even less about call me Dave?

Constantly throughout this thread people bring up Salmond this, Salmond that. You can't have it both ways, Oh wait,that's right you can and have done regularly.

Missed the bit where I have Mike?

[Mikie711]

Wasn't aimed at you personally, that wasn't my intent and I apologise if you read it that way, more aimed at the broader no campaign generally. They have made gone to great lengths to make it all about Salmond and by maintaining the focus on one person have managed to encourage some to not look past the man. A great deal of people will vote no because the don't like him, ironic thing is it's not even his policy. I never knew, until last night, that the SNP started in the 1930's and that devolution and independence was on the cards from before he was born.

I watched a BBC Alba documentary that was never aired on TV, if you can stick with the reading subtitles it was quite interesting.

Watch on YouTube

I can see why they never aired it, given the BBC editorial slant throughout the whole referendum.

[campbell]

Thanks to all SE'rs for there posts over what seems to have been years now ,I have found the info provided by all very useful in my own search for a decision. As I sat at my table tonight I looked at the ballot paper then at my two year old son playing on the floor and still swayed between boxes before taking a deep breath and ticking one, was a strange feeling but its done so I can now get back to surfing for fun stuff instead of politics thank god..........cheers and good luck with your own choices.

I don't mind which box you marked but I hope it was a cross and not a tick that you used!

[campbell]

Thanks to all SE'rs for there posts over what seems to have been years now ,I have found the info provided by all very useful in my own search for a decision. As I sat at my table tonight I looked at the ballot paper then at my two year old son playing on the floor and still swayed between boxes before taking a deep breath and ticking one, was a strange feeling but its done so I can now get back to surfing for fun stuff instead of politics thank god..........cheers and good luck with your own choices.

I don't mind which box you marked but I hope it was a cross and not a tick that you used!

[j2 lot]

It actually doesn't matte. as long as the intent is clear

[David]

I never knew, until last night, that the SNP started in the 1930's and that devolution and independence was on the cards from before he was born.

I watched a BBC Alba documentary that was never aired on TV, if you can stick with the reading subtitles it was quite interesting.

I can see why they never aired it, given the BBC editorial slant throughout the whole referendum.

My parents are English but I've spent all my life in Scotland and grew up in Banchory in the 1960s - before the oil. As a child, I recall being exposed to the more radical nationalist movement, the Tartan Army as they were then nicknamed. We moved there as my father job involved the installation work at the Grampian TV studios. At the time the community was farming and fishing and, although friendly, there was clear dislike of the 'English incomers' which occasionally spilled over to nationalistic extremism with graffiti on property and discrimination. But that was a long time ago and I'm glad to stay Scotland did not let that sentiment grow. What is alarming is the rebirth of this type of behaviour in this campaign.

With regard to the non transmission of programmes, it is not uncommon for this to happen - usually for legal reasons. The fact that this one was finished strongly suggest that it was not an editorial decision (you would have stopped it at the off-line stage). The mostly likely reason is that there is an underlying thread, that can't be edited out, which could be legally challenged and not successfully defended.

[tut]

It actually doesn't matter as long as the intent is clear

Good, I shall put a smilie in........

tut

[point n squirt]

Thanks to all SE'rs for there posts over what seems to have been years now ,I have found the info provided by all very useful in my own search for a decision. As I sat at my table tonight I looked at the ballot paper then at my two year old son playing on the floor and still swayed between boxes before taking a deep breath and ticking one, was a strange feeling but its done so I can now get back to surfing for fun stuff instead of politics thank god..........cheers and good luck with your own choices.

I don't mind which box you marked but I hope it was a cross and not a tick that you used!

yes twas a x

[PhilA]

ive been reading the thread, lots of info on the net, the white paper etc.
Theres alot of cr4p out there, and noise, and nothing really in one place.
Took me ages to find out how the free prescriptions are funded, the new bridge, education.

We are doing quite well - 8% of the population keeping 32% of the country going.
Producing so much renewable energy, excellent financial services, an exporter.

Its been great to read closer to the facts, tho given me a few sore heads!
Nice to know the facts around the whole "England subsidises Scotland" that I hear alot from English residents.

Most attractive thing about Yes is the accountable government - 100% of it being focused on Scotland.
Next up is the idea of we can be energy surplus, meaning we can do a model to run our energy from renewables, bye bye old tech like coal, gas, nuclear as the technology improves. Im actually quite excited about that as a career. Tho, to be honest, I think that can be done without a yes vote.

No vote: avoid the risk of the financial services going south; avoid the risk of money being more expensive. Its mostly about avoiding things.
What has been missing from the No side is what we could CHANGE in order to achieve what we all want - both sides pretty much paint the same end goal of way of living - and Ive not heard anyone say Westminster should stay as it is.
Another thing for No is the whole Team GB sports, the medical research, the uni sponsorships, the centres of excellent, etc. They are the real good Britishness that is worth sticking together for.

A fear of going for a Yes is that grangemouth is needing to be operated so that the oil extraction pipeline can continue. I foresee grangemouth holding iScotland to ransom.


So, what way will I vote?
Hold on, ill get a cup of tea and decide

If I vote No and then there is no change, and we are bullied into something cr4p, then I will look a noob and wish I voted Yes.
Do I have the confidence that with a similar campaign as this indyref, when a more regionalised government is setup in the UK, that everyone in the UK will be reasonable and allocate the funds necessary? Will that even happen?

If I vote Yes and then the financial services move south, or to ireland, with a 9bn drop in GDP, a run on the banks with our money being reduced in value, will I regret it?
Do I have the confidence that, given the mandate for indy, that Salmond will negotiate a fair deal from Westminster?
I would be mighty peeved if Scotland becomes a nuclear dump for the waste from the UK reactors, yes might mean escape from that, other than we have 4 or 5 sites that are already nuclear.


Yes or no, daddy or chips?

[PhilA]

i decided that its a No thanks from me.
I have dreams of starting a company, I dont need the waves of uncertainty that a Yes would bring.

wish I had postal, I could send it away now

[Mikie711]

I quite like this take on things,

Imagine Scotland was already independent and we were about to have a referendum on whether to join a union with the rest of the UK.
Could the Pro-union side convince us that getting together would be better when we were told what would happen to Scotland after such a union? Some bullet points from the campaign…

-Your main Parliament will move 600 miles away, and your MPs will be in a tiny minority & will therefore have limited ability to effect policy on your behalf
-Scotland will get a government it didn’t vote for.
-All of your oil and gas revenues will be handed over to the treasury in London.
-Even though not 1 inch of track will touch Scottish soil your taxpayers will contribute £4.2bn to the HS2 project.
-Your taxpayers will also subsidise the crossrail project to the tune of £4.2bn
-The biggest nuclear weapons facility in Western Europe will be built on the river Clyde, just 30 miles from your largest city.
-Even though you only have 8.2% of the UK’s population you will contribute 9.9% of the UK’s total tax take yet will only receive 9.3% of that tax take back to spend in Scotland (you will lose £4.4bn per year to the UK treasury)
-You will devolve all of the economic levers you have used to shape your economy directly to London and will now only have control of 7% of your economy
-Even though 79% of your MP's voted against it we will privitise your publicly owned mail service
-Even though 91% of your MPs voted against the bedroom tax in your parliament, we will impose it.
-Even though 82% of your MP's believed that a VAT increase would be detrimental to your economy, we will impose a VAT increase.
-You will join a country whose health and education services are rapidly being privatised.
-Now and again you’ll get dragged into an illegal foreign war.
-An austerity budget will be imposed from London cutting jobs and threatening vital public services even though 81% of your MP's voted against the cuts.
-The financial regulation system will be so weak and so lax that your whole economy will be brought to the brink of collapse.
-The most weak and vulnerable in society, instead of getting the protection and support they deserve will be interrogated and humiliated in an effort to get them off the meagre levels of support to which they are entitled.
Who in Scotland would vote for such a package?
Who would vote for that union?
So why would anyone vote to remain in such a union now?
This is about democratic ownership, social responsibility and the fact that Scotland on its own will be economically stronger from day one of independence....."

[Dipper]

The big difference in that scenario mike is that youre being told what 'will' happen. That's something to base your vote on. With the current debate, neither side knows what 'will' happen therefore, for me the only thing I can base my vote on is what we have now versus a total unknown!

[David]

It also depends where you are coming from! The union looked very attractive to the Scots when it was born 300 years ago. The NO campaign may not be selling utopia but at least it is promising that we would not be out of kilter with our neighbor economically.

[PhilA]

I always get pedantic about this one
"Even though you only have 8.2% of the UK’s population you will contribute 9.9% of the UK’s total tax take yet will only receive 9.3% of that tax take back to spend in Scotland (you will lose £4.4bn per year to the UK treasury)"

Its not tax thats back, its tax plus borrowed money - UK runs in a deficit just now.
It includes the Oil money allocated as per Scottish waters, which is considerable - something like £700m if per population, and £7bn if per waters.

Main asset for Scotland is 32% of landmass, way more if waters, and only 8% of population - i.e. lots of natural resources.

Its a good argument for having more share of money, but wish SNP would get facts right

[Lazydonkey]

Re the NHS privatisation thing. Friend of my wife has just enjoyed a 2 day says in a private hospital as her local hospital couldn't remove her gallbladder in time. She paid not a penny and it was all paid for by the NHS. She was fair chuffed as she got seen quickly and got great treatment.

Makes my blood boil.... These tories privatising the NHS.

Sorry? What's that? She lives in Aberdeen and heath care is devolved...... Oh this is awkward.

This isnt spin, it's not media bias it's a real life lass who's met some of you at Kames and has had NHS treatment subbed out to a private company.

Whether this is the right or wrong thing to do is up for debate but don't kid yourself that a yes vote stops private companies doing the work of the NHS.