Top Gear

[Shug]

Very difficult to compare the best from different decades with each other. Fangio was 39 when the World GP Championship was formed.

Some had their lives cut short, Clark, Villeneuve, Senna, and of course as Hamilton and Button are now demonstrating, even the best driver can not do it without a winning car. The ones that spring first to mind are Fangio, Clark, Stewart, Senna, and Schumacher. But then where do you put Nuvolari, Moss, Prost, Villeneuve, and maybe a couple of others.

My own top three would be Fangio, Clark and Senna.

tut

Yup - in general agreement (although perhaps being younger, I place Senna higher) However, Schumacher existed in a time where a key skill was ensuring you had the best tools and the best team around you. Perhaps only Senna came close to him in this area. Plus, you can't argue that sometimes, he did take it well above what most people could manage in a similar car. Perhaps it wasn't the most competitive era, or perhaps he was just best at making sure all the chips fell to him. Guess we'll never know for sure.

[r055]

holy sh1t - this place is like point of view... shug being anne robinson
you lot are so high maintenance - ok ok it is a lotus forum, but bloomin 'eck!

What else would you have been watching on a Sunday night?

I did think the James May Moon/space thing was cracking though

[Shug]

I did think the James May Moon/space thing was cracking though

Totally

[Sanjøy]

Come on boys, I stopped taking the prog seriously when my mum started watching it.

The Schu interview was possibly the worst sportsperson interview since horsey Zara Phillips Sports Personality "amaxing" interview.

Also agree that the FXXxxx thingy is not road leagal or pass the speed bump thingmabob but hey it is TV. Do you really believe ANY of those times ? Do you REALLY think Ferarri would fly it over with MS and permit it not to be #1? Next you will be telling me that Simon Cowell can drive faster than Maser racing Jodie Kidd & petrol Head / cock JK.

[campbell]

holy sh1t - this place is like point of view... shug being anne robinson
you lot are so high maintenance - ok ok it is a lotus forum, but bloomin 'eck!

Point of View it is indeed. So long as it doesn't get personal or beyond bounds of decent manners or morality (!) then all perspectives are considered here. We all like a good moan occasionally.

But high maintenance? I think most of us need less attention than our cars, in honesty Try some of the "bigger" forums for true high maintenance and general prima donna behaviour...

[GregR]

Oh, and let's save the 'best F1 driver of all time' discussion to another thread. Should we set a thread up with a member proposing a 'great' and justifying the case and fielding questions.

[campbell]

Stick a poll in it as well just for fun.

[tut]

Just watched it all the way through, and afraid that Clarkson is getting on my nerves now.

And he insisted on calling the Evora a Supercar all the time, and though it is a very good car, it is NOT a Supercar.

tut

[Stewart]

Very difficult to compare the best from different decades with each other. Fangio was 39 when the World GP Championship was formed.

Some had their lives cut short, Clark, Villeneuve, Senna, and of course as Hamilton and Button are now demonstrating, even the best driver can not do it without a winning car. The ones that spring first to mind are Fangio, Clark, Stewart, Senna, and Schumacher. But then where do you put Nuvolari, Moss, Prost, Villeneuve, and maybe a couple of others.

My own top three would be Fangio, Clark and Senna.

tut

Yup - in general agreement (although perhaps being younger, I place Senna higher) However, Schumacher existed in a time where a key skill was ensuring you had the best tools and the best team around you. Perhaps only Senna came close to him in this area. Plus, you can't argue that sometimes, he did take it well above what most people could manage in a similar car. Perhaps it wasn't the most competitive era, or perhaps he was just best at making sure all the chips fell to him. Guess we'll never know for sure.

Whilst there is no doubt that Schumacher can pedal and would certainly be worthy company along with the above names, he spoilt it for me by being a cheat. I think our own home grown hero had the best way of dealing with him

[Andrew C]

Just have to take the bate What is the definition of a Supercar then Tut Your opinion is valid but it's funny how one of the most respected car journalists on Top Gear stated "not only is it quicker than a Gallardo round the track (do you call that a supercar?) but it competes with the Ferrari which makes it great value for money!"
Andrew

[tut]

My own interpretation of a Supercar is the ones at the very top of the tree, all capable of over 200mph and and above 600hp, and in the hundreds of thousands upto a million.

Working down from the Veyron, Koenigsegg, Zonda, Enzo, Ascari, Saleen, Murcielago, F599GTB, Carrera GT, Mercedes SLR McLaren, the top Astons, and of course the McLaren F1and XJ220. There will be some gaps there but you get the idea. These are only the modern ones without going back to the F40, F50 and the likes.

However it gets difficult because just below them you have the F430 Scuderia, Gallardo, Porsche GT2, R8V10, GT3RS etc, so where do you stop? And I am not necessarily going on fastest around the track, as an Atom 300 or Caterham R500 would probably beat them, but could not be classed as Supercars.

So to me an Evora with 285hp and 1300kgs is going to be compared to a Cayman, Boxster class car on performance, power, cost, interior, and no way could they be classed as Supercars.

tut

[woody]

I pretty much agree with you Tut, but for some gut feeling I can't really see cars with engines in the front as supercars, something like a 599 or SLR seems to be more of a super GT IMO.

[tut]

The 599 is a funny one as it is front engined, but it gets brilliant reviews on and off the track, and virtually has the Enzo engine in it. The SLR was debatable as it is softer than the others, but price, speed, performance put it up there.

I think most people would agree on possibly the top ten in the list, but then it depends how far down you go. No matter what interpretation I put on it though, the Evora does not come through as a Supercar.

tut

[Dominic]

I have to say, I was quite suprised when TG referred to the Evora as a supercar. The new Esprit maybe, but as I understand it, the Evora is more of a caymen rival. I was left thinking that TG had misunderstood the market positioning of the Evora,... or maybe I have. Or, possibly, they believe, in several areas, that the Evora is comparable to supercars.

[Shug]

Or that it's just a name and too many people are too hung up on slotting things into neat categories?