WTF!

[BiggestNizzy]

Do what the yanks did with the mustang: a boggo basic version with easy to swap engine options from the factory.

Make the 1.4 model upgradable cheaply and easily to a 1.6, 1.6 turbo, etc.
Then you buy your baby sports car then in a few years buy a factory upgrade kit, drop in a new engine, get a warrantry on said engine, and have the same car with more power.

I would happily cut the engine size down to 1.2T units or less 1.4 was just a number I pulled out the top of my head.

[Sanjøy]

..Make the std model upgradable cheaply and easily to a high amperage batteries

Fixed that for you.

[Lazydonkey]

Yes but how many people are crestfallen when you say the elise has a 1.8 engine?

Didn't stop the critical acclaim on release and huge success of the car ...

Not when it was new, no.

However the latest Elise with the 1.6 isnt exactly flying out of the showrooms is it ?

[campbell]

In many respects the Elise has followed the "upgrade-ready" route since inception.

Lotus have shipped a 135 kit for S1 and S2, and offered the VHPD 190 engine too (moreso for S1 I believe, though). Subsequently, I think the supercharged Exige models could be upgrade by dealers from "base" 220 spec or whatever it was, although I could be imagining this.

Whatever the case, the aftermarket has always offered credible upgrade steps especially for Toyota engined cars and supercharging etc.

So we are just waiting to see what the tweaking options will be for the 1.6

[GregR]

Yes but how many people are crestfallen when you say the elise has a 1.8 engine?

Didn't stop the critical acclaim on release and huge success of the car ...

Not when it was new, no.

However the latest Elise with the 1.6 isnt exactly flying out of the showrooms is it ?

true - I'd blame that on a lack of 'true' progress since conception 16 years ago rather than a lack of power/lack of ccs.

[Lazydonkey]

I think Mazda have already proven you wrong there with the 1.3 Rx8.

You mean the worst depreciating car in the entire universe that you now cannot give away ?

Yes they really proved me wrong eh ?

[campbell]

However the latest Elise with the 1.6 isnt exactly flying out of the showrooms is it ?

True.

There may be a re-setting of expectation required though, which will take time. A lot of punters are still running about in 111R or SC type Elises, or perhaps even credible K series engine S2s. When these become a bit tired or leggy, they *might* choose to refresh to a frugal fun car that's not overloaded weight-wise (a "bare" 1.6 is about 850kg I think...forget aircon and touring packs etc).

The price point ain't brilliant but OTOH if you look at pricing in real terms, I think a base 1.6 is no more costly than a std S1 from 1996. 15 years have passed, remember. 15.

Indeed, there appear to be a couple of factory fresh 1.8 S models still available for sale too...with heavy discounts. Also tempting

And finally...there's a recession on don't you know and this could well quosh buying decisions for people who otherwise would happily have an entry level Elise as a fun, 2nd, weekend car. Or who would have stretched to buy one as a big goal.

Who knows eh?

[campbell]

I think Mazda have already proven you wrong there with the 1.3 Rx8.

You mean the worst depreciating car in the entire universe that you now cannot give away ?

Yes they really proved me wrong eh ?

I don't think the conversation was attempting to compare re-sale value...just the willy-waving of how many CCs have you got. IMHO this is very American...Europeans are less concerned about that. In fact the bigger the CCs you admit to having, the bigger the frown you might now get from people and not just ecowarriors

Personally I love answering anyone asking me at the pumps "so you got a thirsty V6 in there then mate?", with a "nope, it's an 1800 from an MGF, it does 45 to the gallon and still 30-odd even if I thrash the pants off it, and it'll skelp most cars cross-country if you know how to drive it". Willy-waving as well, I suppose, but they usually have a surprised smile and supportive thumbs up for me afterwards...it's nice to be nice.

[gorrie]

Fiats Multi-Air 1.4T engine produces 165bhp in the standard level Abarth Punto Evo (with 250nm @ 2250rpm). Essesse trim ups that to 180bhp.
On the face of it, plenty enough for an entry level lightweight Lotus (considering the 111R put out 189bhp with 181nm).
Ok, not fair to compare forced induction against the Yota... but even a 1.4 with a lighter pressure turbo you'd think would be sufficient for an entry level car..... willy waving aside.

[campbell]

Strikes me though that one of the downsizing drivers is purely to fox the CO emissions tests :roll

Everyone is now on the forced induction bandwagon, because when the car is off-load the small cap engine fairly just sips fuel and thus makes a great "Extra-urban" number in the lab tests. Realistic "urban" driving would not, however, yield anything so good as even the quoted figures IMHO, due to the amount of acceleration required.

If the EU keep squeezing, then I could well see Lotus put something smaller /cleverer in the entry level Elise, but realistically how much further can they squeeze now? My guess is they will re-write the emissions tests rules at some point soon and all the twincharging investment will go up in a puff of hydrocarbons because the new tests will favour "regular" engines but still with fewer cyls. LOL, don't you just love Europe.

[Lazydonkey]

I don't think the conversation was attempting to compare re-sale value

No but re-sale value is one of the easiest way to gauge popularity with the buying masses. Now in the case of the mazda (a car i rate incidentally) there are other issues, but my point still stands - its very difficult to sell a low CC sportscar in the current climate.

[campbell]

Fair enough I imagine it's tricky to sell *any* sportscar just now, but clearly it's still possible - I guess if you push the right buttons on core performance, quality, residual value, etc, then you are untouchable. Porsche doing OK right now then?!

Or come to think of it...which sportscar-oriented manufacturer really IS doing well right now, do we think?

[BiggestNizzy]

I don't think the conversation was attempting to compare re-sale value

No but re-sale value is one of the easiest way to gauge popularity with the buying masses. Now in the case of the mazda (a car i rate incidentally) there are other issues, but my point still stands - its very difficult to sell a low CC sportscar in the current climate.

Isn't the rotary classed as a 2.6 ? and drink fuel ? I don't rotary engines were ever that good on the resale market. ANd why should mazda care there are loads on the used market so they must have sold a load of them. it will hurt new sales but the Rx8 is old hat nowadays and nothing to do with it's displacement.

[gorrie]

On the Mazda, I think the (false) rumours about it drinking more oil than petrol, along with history of the rotary engine in the RX7 requiring rebuilds had more to do with the lack of popularity for the RX8.
Coupled with poor mpg and latterly the £400+ road tax has probably put the nail in the coffin for RX8 resale value... rather than the fact it was a 1.3. It did afterall still have 230bhp, hit 60 in 6 seconds & handled like a dream.... so I don't think it was down to pub bragging rights.

PS, yes, it was classed as a 2.6 on the v5.

[Lazydonkey]

i didnt cite the RX8 as a shining example of low CC sportscars - Chris did. I merely pointed out it wasn't a good example

For mainstream sales CC and bhp matters. For us it doesn't, but we arent the buying masses.

Hence if lotus want to chance £££££s then they will have to conform, hence the cars coming up that dont appeal to us but might sell.

I wouldnt buy one but there you go.

Hope this clarifies my position