The Referendum. SNP. Tories. Independence. Etc.

[thinfourth]

Can we try an keep some balance to this thread.
Not all yes voters are raving nationalist idiots, at least I don't consider myself to be an idiot.
.

True

idiotic 95% gave the rest of them a bad name

[tut]

Not sure about your last comment Mike, I think that Sturgeon will call one in the short term. I have the feeling that after the SNP Election results she feels invulnerable and can take any action that she wants to, she owns all but three seats.

Gave her the benefit of the doubt initially, but think that now she is getting carried away with her own perceived position of power. Would like to see her brought down to earth.

tut

[BiggestNizzy]

Tut, referendum aside I the UK government are in the same boat, drunk on power with 36% of the vote.

[pshanks76]

True
idiotic 95% gave the rest of them a bad name

[robin]

Nicola Sturgeon needs to check her rear view mirror. Jeremy Corbyn is putting getting Scotland back into Labour as his top priority, she might find herself out of government in 2016!



Cheers,
Robin

[robin]

Can we try an keep some balance to this thread.

Easy, just make some random sh*t up about the No voters, preferably bat sh*t crazy sh*t, and the balance will be restored.

Cheers,
Robin

[Kelvin]

It's nice to be missed tut

It's disheartening to see the behaviour of the Yes campaign towards those that took the No stance. What changed my view was the way my 75 year old mum was treated when she happened to mention in a cafe in Glasgow that she was voting no. She got berated by a small group of people, who overheard her, for being disloyal to Scotland and the younger generation and that the country will be better off when old cows like you die. She's a strong minded woman who has been through a lot and gave as good as she got but that's not democracy and moreover it wasn't the actions of a small group of people as lots of my friends felt similarly about the antics of the Yes campaign. Can you imagine if Yes had won and how anyone not kowtowing to their view would have been treated?

The best thing for Scotland will be a resurgent Labour party to hold the SNP to account in my view. One party politics is terrible for democracy in the long run.

[Rosssco]

Can we try an keep some balance to this thread.

Easy, just make some random sh*t up about the No voters, preferably bat sh*t crazy sh*t, and the balance will be restored.

Cheers,
Robin

I think the YESNP tried that with their own, more extreme version, e.g. traitor, quisling, Tory, etc. etc...

[David]

I've just written a couple of paragraphs but deleted it as it did't really add anything to what's already been said.

My views haven't change much, just maybe hardened a little. I'm looking forward to the Scottish elections - Nicola's charm maybe wearing off faster than we think. The cosy Westminster team just might be taking the edge off their desire, and argument, for independence. Time will tell!

[pete]

My oh my.

What different experiences we had had.

I didn't encounter any negativity from Yes campaigners, although I put a few No campaigners' noses out of joint (including 3 Labour Councillors) not by abusing them but just by knowing more about politics and economics than they did. (Although you know, Labour Councillors, so it's not like it was a stretch).

It got a lot of people engaged in politics in a way that many haven't been for a generation or so. I think that's a good thing in itself.

[Shug]

I'd respectfully suggest Pete, that the difference in experiences with the Yes campaign were largely due to you being a reasonably vocal in the Yes camp yourself.

That's what really disappoints me about the whole experience. What you're saying is that more people became interested in politics partly holds true, but a large amount of the vocal (minority/majority/whatever the reality is) of the Yes campaign was poorly informed and frankly the shouty dross of the populace - who would be yelling about something else if not yelling about their new found political awakening... I think it harmed the Yes campaign massively, to be honest. I know my opinion was lowered every time I saw a politician being heckled in the street or I got accused of being afraid to be Scottish...

It became acceptable somehow to personally insult someone's "national pride" if they dared question the incredibly vague promises being bandied about by the Yes campaign. You needed to have faith and bravery to take the step of a generation - sounds a bit close to religious fervour for my comfort. And if I'm honest, it made me a bit embarrassed to identify with my Scottishness - which was something to that date I was fiercely proud of.

What's really disappointing is the painful schism it's left in Scotland and the people of Scotland. It's been said earlier in the thread and I've personally experienced friendships being sullied by the rantings of yes campaigners. Let's be clear, not every Yes voter was a raving lunatic (and not even close to the majority, I'm sure) but I didn't get the impression any No voters were going about verbally assaulting people and questioning their parentage over the vote and it has to be said that the Yes campaign (whether through design or coincidence) seemed to lock into the mouth breather "Freedom!" mentality...

Was it a good thing that it happened? I'm really not sure now. Beforehand, I'd have said "Yes" (it's a good thing, not Yes to the vote). Before I realised that it wouldn't answer a question, just create more.

[BigD]

Good explanation Shug, that almost exactly mirrors my experience and viewpoint.

I too think it was damaging and divisive and did more harm than good. And also made me question my pride in scots and Scottishness. To the point I was embarrassed rather than proud to be Scottish.

If anything I am more a no voter now than I was then.

[jason]

Eloquently put, sensible stuff

As an englishman living here for the past 15 odd years (with a scottish born son *) I was forever hesitant to discuss independence with friends/associates, and it was made clear to me many times that my opinion was entirely irrelevant. Some of those saying that to me were previously friends who cut all ties with me. Division right down at that personal level.

I imagine most No voters felt the same as me, hoping that the referendum would be respected and we could move forward with the nation's answer. How naive were those hopes. "Triumph for the democratic process", said Salmond. Hmm, really?

I struggle to express this point well: Unlike regular, transient politics with opportunities for future voters to change things, this is undeniably a bigger deal. And it remains an odd prospect that a political party and small majority of people ticking boxes (which I do not feel has the same gravity as 'the will of the people') can trigger seismic, irreversible change to a nation based on a snapshot political moment. Though I recognise there's no other way to do it of course.

Sturgeon/SNP have stated they won't pursue another referendum until "we are certain of achieving a 'yes' result", which just seems a total abuse of process. It's like agreeing to arbitration then refusing to acknowledge the arbiter's decision.



* see how I felt the need to add that irrelevant/unnecessary qualifier

[Mikie711]

I actually agree with a lot of what Shug said. That being said a lot of the emotions were driven by the popular press I feel. They fuelled the arguments, focused a lot of attention on the very vocal minorities at the beginning and suck a lot of people into the hype thus fanning the flames.

[rossybee]

I also agree with what Shug said - which must make it all the more frustrating for the level-headed Yes voters.

Another (far less inportant) fact which tickled me was the amount of yessers who felt the need to sticker up (not just window, but full body panels) their cars, and have the flags etc fluttering from the windows....didn't see any No stickers other than the odd small window job.

There's a white Focus kicks around Dundee still with the big blue "YES" roundels on bonnet and doors, even my kids shout "you lost" when they see it



Also agree with Jason - interesting perspective from another angle