Brexit.

[Scuffers]

That is up there with make sure you take a pen in the paranoid rantings stake

I call balls on that claim

As you need to enter a UK postcode

People are lazy and would enter a random postcode

So why does this map show a concentration of votes in the southeast and not an even spread as a random postcode would generate?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cl1Hif1WMAQg7Wf.jpg

[PhilA]

Referenda are quite simply polarising.

When decided on a view, either side see Black or White.

When undecided, folk are open to both sides.
Once decided, they dont see the side they didnt decide to go with.
They then, like sheep in a flock, shout for their team.

No matter the sensible arguments on the opposite side, the folk will stay on their decision.
This isnt all people, but its alot of people.

Psychologists will know what it is, I dont, but I see the characteristics.

[PhilA]

To say the young are wrong - that they have "no life experience" in determining "the ballocks that is the EU"...
Is like supporting anything the elders say - including:
. Right to bear arms.
. Gays are an illness.
. Blacks are here to serve.
. Women should be in the home.
. A caddy cant play golf.


The world changes, and its the Next Generation that sees where next to go.

so, respectfully, perhaps the older generation should listen to the views of the younger generation, instead of sticking to their polarised view?

Anyone who is a debater can win an argument, especially if they are in a crowd that is more numerous to their way of thinking.
But, there is also "Grok" - the route of taking on viewpoints, going away, thinking on it, comparing to other views, and coming out the other end with a viewpoint that may or may not be modified.
Persuading someone in a conversation is just winning a debate.

[Scuffers]

and, who would have guessed:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-s ... s-36633244

[thinfourth]

That is up there with make sure you take a pen in the paranoid rantings stake

I call balls on that claim

As you need to enter a UK postcode

People are lazy and would enter a random postcode

So why does this map show a concentration of votes in the southeast and not an even spread as a random postcode would generate?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cl1Hif1WMAQg7Wf.jpg

And your point is what?

If all the votes were in that one postcode i would accept it

But they aren't

They are in central london

Not kent

[thinfourth]

and, who would have guessed:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-s ... s-36633244

She is saying we won't need another referendum to be an independent country in europe

Democracy in action

[Scuffers]

That is up there with make sure you take a pen in the paranoid rantings stake

I call balls on that claim

As you need to enter a UK postcode

People are lazy and would enter a random postcode

So why does this map show a concentration of votes in the southeast and not an even spread as a random postcode would generate?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cl1Hif1WMAQg7Wf.jpg

And your point is what?

If all the votes were in that one postcode i would accept it

But they aren't

They are in central london

Not kent

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06 ... gnatories/

[thinfourth]

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06 ... gnatories/

Now that raise the dilemma

What is easier to believe


Either we have 3million plus tragically deluded half brains who only believe in democracy when it goes there way

OR

The UK government has built a democratic system that can be rigged by a 12 year old with a laptop


I really don't know

I would say both are completely believable

[tut]

Unlikely that she would Simon, but would keep the interest going from my massage chair whilst convalescing, so go on Nicola give it a go, nobody would say that you do not have balls.

tut

[jason]

I think she likes to gloss over the true meaning of democracy, as in "we will keep having a go at this until you agree with what we want"

^ this x1000

Clearly the SNP will continue to want referendums until that golden moment in time that the answer goes the way they want it to * The contrast in responses to the 45% vs 55% and 62% vs 38% results is interesting...

There is also the unavoidable possibility that the vote here will have been affected for some anti-EU, pro-Union voters by their fear of helping generate IndyRef2 ammunition. As I've said before in this thread, for some people in Scotland it may not have been a free choice of what was on Thursday's ballot paper. I'm sure similar arguments can be used to explain the voting on both sides (unknowns are unknowns), so it's disingenuous to erect the IndyRef2 guillotine over Thursday's voting papers and then use the result as a clear demonstration of "the will of the people of Scotland".




* In my view, this is the flaw in yes/no referendums when decisions are irreversible for 50% of the outcome, and IMHO it is arguably an abuse of 'the system' to just keep asking the question until you get what you want (doesn't matter what the population's consensus is the day/months/years/generations before or after - just need that golden moment - and this holds true for any such referendum).

[j2 lot]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-e ... m-36634407

Are people really so stupid/ desperate that they think they can get away with rigging a petition and no one will notice.

[thinfourth]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-e ... m-36634407

Are people really so stupid/ desperate that they think they can get away with rigging a petition and no one will notice.

YEP

It is democracy (leftwing style) in action

[thinfourth]

I think she likes to gloss over the true meaning of democracy, as in "we will keep having a go at this until you agree with what we want"

^ this x1000

Clearly the SNP will continue to want referendums until that golden moment in time that the answer goes the way they want it to * The contrast in responses to the 45% vs 55% and 62% vs 38% results is interesting...

There is also the unavoidable possibility that the vote here will have been affected for some anti-EU, pro-Union voters by their fear of helping generate IndyRef2 ammunition. As I've said before in this thread, for some people in Scotland it may not have been a free choice of what was on Thursday's ballot paper. I'm sure similar arguments can be used to explain the voting on both sides (unknowns are unknowns), so it's disingenuous to erect the IndyRef2 guillotine over Thursday's voting papers and then use the result as a clear demonstration of "the will of the people of Scotland".




* In my view, this is the flaw in yes/no referendums when decisions are irreversible for 50% of the outcome, and IMHO it is arguably an abuse of 'the system' to just keep asking the question until you get what you want (doesn't matter what the population's consensus is the day/months/years/generations before or after - just need that golden moment - and this holds true for any such referendum).

I voted leave

Almost purely down to NOT supporting the SNP position

[c8rkh]

I see Queen Nicola has been resolutely informed that Scotland cannot stay in the EU if the rest of the UK leaves. Whomever it was from the EU who told her that must (a) have a huge pair of balls and (b) now have a huge headache after the lambasting and shrieking they got from her.

So, Brexit means we all leave. Scotland has to then apply for membership, and I think we all know what terms will be required - Euro and Shengen. Does that mean that the Retail Village at Gretna will be modelled into some sort of border control facility and will England need to pay for a new fence for it?

I really don't think Queen Nicola wants Indyref2 just now. There is not a great chance she will win. And losing 2 indyrefs in 2 or so years sends a pretty clear "shut the fcuk up about independence and get on with managing the process of government" type of message I think.

[thinfourth]

What Queen Nicola was/is hoping for was to get a deal where she can declare independence from the english WITHOUT a referendum and walk into the EU

And i can see the EU agreeing to that just to spite the english