Kenny MacAskill and his decision

[meatball]

Tut,
He was always going to be welcomed back in that manner.

Pete,
A very well written reply to what I posted.
I only wish that out resident lawyer had managed to get his point accross like that and could have avoided ridiculing some of the outraged Scottish people for their beliefs (or that is how I read it....but I am often wrong).

[Dominic]

Guilty in the first place; open to debate..

Having been convicted, and therefore assuming he is guilty (as per Meatballs first post), should he have been released: NO WAY!

Ashamed to be Scottish? No

Ashamed to be led by SNP? VERY MUCH!

[GregR]

Tut,
He was always going to be welcomed back in that manner.

Pete,
A very well written reply to what I posted.
I only wish that out resident lawyer had managed to get his point accross like that and could have avoided ridiculing some of the outraged Scottish people for their beliefs (or that is how I read it....but I am often wrong).

Crikey meatybaws, looks like by starting the thread you've felt it necessary to take it all a bit personally. What I said was that people that say, "I am ashamed to be Scottish," for electing to send a dieing man homeon compassionate grounds obviously have 'issues'. I don't see what compassion has to do with a sense of national pride, and it strikes me as a very hollow thing to say - no doubt to be mirrored by the red tops this morning. The same such people are likely to have had the same sense of national pride to vote in a party that had 'scottish' and 'national' in it into government, the irony being that the nationalist government is the one that makes those so ashmamed of their scottishness.

Re Donkey's comments and my reply, I'm afraid you've misinterpreted. I applauded Donkey's insight, I've never seen such a succinct pracie of the problems that these fabulous techniques bring with them from someone not involved in the law. Every cloud has a silver lining, surely you appreciate that.

Please direct me to the part where I made any mention of the Foreign Secretayt being involved in a conspiracy, or McAskill 'letting him go' to correct a wrongful convction'.

I don't think you'll find anything that Pete said that contradicts what I said. If you have a problem with the tone/manner of my posts, well there we are. World would be a dull place if we all agreed.

[allyrennie]

Not read the whole thread on this, but seeing a Saltire flag being waved by one of his supporters as he gets off the plane is stomach churning.......

[hendeg]

To be honest, I don't really know where to start on this one. It opens the debate on so many aspects of our justice system that it's ridiculous.

Whether the decision is right or wrong we (the Scottish nation) look like a bunch of f@nnys because of the manner in which it's been done.

I'm almost with Tut on bringing back capital punishment. One thing is for sure, the current juducial system is way off the mark for our current society.

I heard a soldier from Afghanistan being interviewed on the radio on the way home last night. He was asking what he's doing out there fighting the "War on Terror" when we're just letting the convicted out the back door. A fair question I thought.

[campbell]

I think one is entitled to feel ashamed of their community, peers, and/or their association with same when in particular something of (in this case) national interest and international visibility is at stake.

I see it no differently to occasions when I might have felt a bit of shame to be part of Scottish Elises when some of our more questionable behaviours were being publicly displayed.

Or when my company was laying people off and the mechanics of the process were not quite as equitable as perhaps they should have been (I've been with the same bunch for 17 yrs now and the dent in my trust was eye-watering).

Are these instances hollow as well?

I think not. I think the point (for me anyway) is that I'm still here - both in SE and in Scotland! - and I'll get over it all but it doesn't mean I have to like it all or agree with it all at the time.

Anyway I'm drifting. I too liked Pete's post, very thought provoking. As are all the others. Even Greg's

[Lazydonkey]

So forensics are more likely to lead to an innocent person being convicted?

No, but it worries me that such importance is placed on new techniques that, were we to bring back capital punishment, we could execute someone where the only evidence was a fledgling forensic technique. Moreover this "evidence" could overwhelm any old school evidence that suggested that the accused didn't do it. Finger print evidence has now found to be lacking, and isn't the be all and end all it was once thought to be. Many new forensic techniques are thought to be beyond reproach just now, but will this change in 5 years ?

The foreign secretary was involved in this big conspiracy.

Are you happy that documents that may or may not contain new evidence that cast doubt on the previous conviction are now being suppressed? I didn't say it was a conspiracy, i'm just suspicious as to why any government would suppress anything that important. [/quote]

MacAskill let him go to correct a wrongful conviction

Find one post where I've said that. I merely noted that the main objections to him being released seemed to centre around the fact that he was guilty. This is a fact that I and many others (inc. Scottish relatives of the victims) are not convinced of.

Campbell - this isn't a me vs.. you thing, i'm merely offering an alternative prospective.

Greg - thank you and i look forward to my coconut

Regardless of who believes what, it is nice that this debate remains civil and, on the whole, well informed. Unlike similar threads on other forums. Long live SE etc etc

[H8OAG]

I am not going to enter the debate, but will offer up a few lines of what yesterday's announcement brought back home to me.
I was travelling northbound on the M74 on that particular night after a meeting in Manchester, and after a couple of hours I elected to stop at Lockerbie for something to eat. I have been a motorway warrior for many years(1.2m miles and counting) and one thing that has remained consistent through my travelling years is the quality of the fish suppers at the Italian owned chipper.

I made a call home to say I was in Lockerbie and not to bother preparing a meal as I was about to eat. On rejoining the motorway,I tried to phone home again about 30 mins later and both networks were dead (As a BT Cellnet Account Director my car was Equipped with a System 4 Radiophone and Cellular telephone). The networks remained off the air and I arrived home 90 minutes later to be met by a gathering of anxious family and friends.

Over the next few hours , I watched the events unfold on the television as well as liaising with BT/BT CELLNET and Police Authorities in an effort to get mobile comms restored to the area (ACCOLC - An Emergency Services Preference System had been deployed and not particularly successful!) I made a few harrowing site visits over the next couple of days as we had deployed mobile cellular transmitters to the area in an effort to satisfy the emergency services and the world's media .

This week , I visited the chipper again on wednesday evening to witness the owner and customers attentively listening to the evening news and speculation of the Bomber's imminent release. The commentary that followed within the shop was that "The Man" should be released and sent home to die....."It was divine retribution that had made him terminally ill and it would not matter whether he was in Greenock or Tripoli" .
The same verdict as Kenny one day later.... but more dignified and without the political rhetoric

[pete]

I was drunk when I wrote the earlier post. This one may make less sense.

Have you actually read Kenny MacAskill's full statement?

Pompous and intellectually vacuous.

People see conspiracy where there is cockup and forget that the motivation for most politicians is self-aggrandisement. Kenny (am I the only one who thinks politicos should use their full names? Kenny sounds like a child's name) is getting his one shot at being truly on a world stage, and my god is he milking it.

And I've lived in Scotland for 14 or so years and this is the first time I have heard that Scots are famous for their humanity.

[BiggestNizzy]

I haven't read the full thread as I am at work and can't spare the time/can't be arsed.

Letting him go was a good descision it stopped him winning his appeal, it helped BP in libya, and it annoyed the americans ( really felt like punching the TV when hilary clinton was talking about it)

was he guilty ? probably not, he was convenient and helped close the thing off I am sure his family have been recompenced

[Dominic]

Letting him go was a good descision it stopped him winning his appeal, it helped BP in libya, and it annoyed the americans ( really felt like punching the TV when hilary clinton was talking about it)

Fair point, and i would agree with the sentiment regarding the yanks. I would go as far as to say that I struggle to have any time for the majority of yanks, and have it in my head that they are all stupid. I realise that they are not ALL stupid of course.

However while I have little time for the yanks, they (as tourists) do come here and spend their money, and plenty of it.

[tut]

Well done pete, that "aggrandisement" has never appeared on here before.

tut

[robin]

It's good to see that we can rely on Tut to continue to monitor and chart the growth of the SE vocabulary

I don't think we should worry about tourist revenue; if the

yanks

keep coming even though we think they are

all stupid

, then the small matter of releasing a terminally ill man to die at home probably won't stop them, eh?

Cheers,
Robin

[Titanium S1 111S (gla)]

Have you actually read Kenny MacAskill's full statement?

Pompous and intellectually vacuous.

I have heard him speak on a number of occasions and have spoken to him face to face on one occasion. In my personal opinion the man has neither the intellect nor the political ability to competently do his job. I am ashamed that he was a member of my profession but am more ashamed that we, through the democratic process, appointed him to be deal with this very difficult situation.

Was the decision correct? I will not pass comment other than to say it was a difficult decision and that I am not uncomfortable with it. I would probably have said the same of not releasing him.

As far as the Scottish Parliament is concerned, I am constantly staggered by the poor quality of the vast majority of members. Scotland has plenty of able individuals, historically the highest incidence of genius outside the Jewish race, why is the quality of MSPs so deplorably low?

[Lazydonkey]

neither the intellect nor the political ability to competently do his job.

i fear if you started vetting mps / msps on that criteria then we'd have precious few left