New Knockhill "Time Attack lite" series for trackdayers

[tut]

Sure thing Renny, and I expect you to be my personal Scrutineer.



tut

[Mikie711]

If they do allow engine swap cars I hope they will be in libre class on there own. OK the honda elise is likely to be reasonably standard (ish) type car but most swap cars are purpose built.
That said if they do it will really start to blur the lines between this series and Time attack/sprint hillclimb.

[Scottish Scrutineer]

Classes are based on power/weight ratio. It is the categories of cars that need to be changed to allow engine swaps. MSA changed regs to reflect car categories and classes are set by organisers within those categories. Apologies for any confusion, but the Speed Regs are a bit of a mess TBH


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[H8OAG]

H8OAG,
That helmet is OK.
Tut,
If we get the MSA to allow engine swaps, I'll expect to see you out.




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Thanks
Just waiting on the regs getting posted up to see what else is on the shopping list

[TrackScotland]

Some clarification on a few points

Cars will be out together for the first 3 sessions (15 or 20mins - still need confirmed?!). Planning to have classes A & B out together, and C & D together for the sessions (if numbers in classes suit). This will try to keep speeds similar.

Warmup - Practice (timed) - Qualy (timed)

And then the final is 1 flying lap. Lots of pressure but No Traffic!

KMSC are working towards allowing as many cars as they can (aero, engine blocks etc), so regardless of your status as Production/Modified/Libre you will still be slotted into the correct Class A, B, C or D. These classes may not be perfect for some, but they are a starting point for the series... and they do address the growing problem with massive power levels in the lowest classes of Time Attack.

We'll be entering two cars

R32 GTR in A - Driven by Fee (550whp 1420kg with her in it = 388bhp per ton) She has decided to go into A though.

STI TypeR in B or C, driven by me (Adam) - 370whp, 1280kg = 289bhp per ton). I may opt for Class B to allow me to lose some easy weight from the car. It still runs electric windows, and mirrors

Some useful links for you guys:

FaceBook - https://www.facebook.com/SuperlapScotland
Website - http://www.superlapscotland.co.uk/

[gambler]

Looks pretty interesting. I do like the idea of it running on power to weight ratio. The power in club class cars in Time Attack has been getting well out of hand lately and I am sure that it puts a lot of people off. It could be open to abuse though, just like all rules. I suppose that it could be addressed with the cars running data loggers which could help the issue.

With transmission losses of 20-25% in 4WD cars, the top class cars are going to be pretty powerful.

For example : When I ran at Knockhill this year in Club Pro with the dicky turbo, my power to weight ratio was 316BHP/Ton at the wheels. Still managed a 54s lap though

[Mikie711]

The only problem with this is it was supposed to bridge the gap between TA and trackdays, be an easy step into motorsport hence the road car regs. However there are people pushing for relaxing the regs and allowing purpose built track cars, ex TA cars etc to be allowed to compete. You would think that the power to weight equaliser would take care of any advantage but we all know that isn't going to happen, a 300bhp 1150kg touring car can run some pretty quick lap times and it would be in the same class as a Exige S. That and there is no way to police cars that have sophisticated engine management systems although it should be easy to spot them based on lap times.
I was all for this initially, but having had a look around at other forums I think I'll wait and see how it pans out.

[JohnStewart]

I still think that given the rules about pump fuel only (means no race fuel, octane booster or NOS in my mind), that cars like Exiges, 2-11 and Caterhams etc will be ideally suited to this event.

An Exige S for example with 220(ish) bhp (200 at the wheels?) and an all up weight of 1000kg including fuel and driver might just squeeze into the lowest class (D), along with modified hot hatches like Clios, Civics etc. I'd anticipate lap times of 59 - 61 seconds.

A 2-11 with 250(ish) bhp (say 230 at the wheels), and all up weight of say 850kg with fuel and driver on board would be in Class C, as would say David's R400. Lap times around 57s ??

Scott's TA car would be in class B on pump fuel, and laps around 55s

Most of the track days special and competition cars would be in the top A class, and lap around 51 - 54 seconds.

In TA, there was a rule that if you lapped within 5% of the fastest lap of the class above you, then you earned promotion to that class (sounds nicer than being forced into the next class up as you are too fast), but with this series being based on power to weight ratios, then success ballast could maybe be looked at?

A BTCC car laps around 54 seconds on slicks and race fuel with a top driver. On a detuned engine running pump fuel and on 1B tyres instead of slicks, I'd expect it to lap around 57 seconds, the same as other Class C cars.

[Scotty C]

211 + me would work out at 229bhp/ton

[Scotty C]

Foz 01 you need to get you 320 BHP S1 ready

[Mikie711]

211 + me would work out at 229bhp/ton

Holly sh!t, how heavy are you

[alicrozier]

211 + me would work out at 229bhp/ton

Holly sh!t, how heavy are you

250kg or that really was a Yaris engine...

[Scotty C]

850kg me + 211 and some fuel. @ 260 BHP

[robin]

Has it been answered already - is fuel supposed to be full tank or just whatever you choose to race with.

I suppose Egor would weigh in at 900kg with brimmed tank and me in it (I am about 115kg). So I would need 180bhp to max out the Class D regs.

An early S1 with a more normal 85kg driver would probably be pretty close with a nice 160BHP, having the advantage that you'll have a better torque curve and thus less need for an impractical set of gear ratios.

Are you allowed to race with front wheels on the rear

Cheers,
Robin

[That's me getting in the first of many excuses why I won't be entering/last in class if I do ]

[tut]

850kg me + 211 and some fuel. @ 260 BHP

Wrong maths Scotty, assuming 240whp you would be 282hp/ton.

tut