Pulled by unmarked Audi........

[tut]

I can not understand the differential between 85 and 109 Karl, though for obvious reasons nooops has not posted full details.

The lower one is only just over the standard three points and £60 fine on a 60 road, mine was for 97 on a M/W and a Court case, whereas 95 would have been a fixed penalty.

tut

[Noops]

Noops

Can I ask or would you mind disclosing (by PM) what is deemed dangerous?
The speed in itself isn't dangerous and with a realistic chance (from your original post) of a Newton Plea, it could be reduced below 100tuts. This in effect, whilst still be considerably over the 60 limit, would only demand a ban with a max of 56 days. Can even be argued to points.

Karl

I think, obviously on their (police) part as its their job..to count up the smaller issues??.ie as I left the 30tuts sign I overtook someone on a bicycle using the opposit lane at speed??? dosn't say what speed however it would well below the speed limit as the distance required to get over the limit the bicycle was well passed . I'm to have passed three small holding entrances, there again no speed given. I then on the next strech of road with the shortest road marking I indecated then over took a nissan micra, there is a SLOW sign written on the road before a slight left hand bend with a junction further up on the right , where the speed increased this road was said to be in good state of repair ( this is a straight 109) at the end of this I'm to have illuminated the slow warning light before turning left into a lesser classed road at speed. There was no lights etc activated at this point.

The next section was on a sloping downhill road staight with road said to be in places patched and in not as good standerd, where I reached 92tuts ( where lights etc were said to be actvated)then slowed to take a left hand bend at the bottom of the hill which had a SLOW on the road which had farm with visable entrances to the left and farm cottages with gardens in front to the right the speed through this was recorded at 47 tuts where a pedestrian was walking on the other side of the road carried on passed the farm building going through two further corners rising to 58 tuts where I pulled in when safe to do so.

[ikarl]

I can not understand the differential between 85 and 109 Karl, though for obvious reasons nooops has not posted full details.

The lower one is only just over the standard three points and £60 fine on a 60 road, mine was for 97 on a M/W and a Court case, whereas 95 would have been a fixed penalty.

tut

The courts generally agree that anything over 100 is excessive and can be deemed as dangerous by the old duffer on the bench.....

If Noops can convince the PF to accept a Newton Plea (that being - you agree you were speeding excessively but you disagree that it was over 100. i.e. 97mph) and ask them to offer him that...... a guilty plea will be made by Noops. Saves the PF time in court and unless he was driving incredibly dangerously they generally want these cases to go away as well.

The point would then be that he wouldn't be in 'dangerous' territory and excessive speed would be the only charge. He would then be in the (max) 56day ban territory but it is not unknown for 6 points and a 150% weekly wage fine given.

Personally, I'd be trying everything I could (and Noops seems to be ) to get the PF to drop the 'dangerous' charge..... It's a guaranteed 1 yr ban (prison is incredibly unlikely unless he caused a huge pile-up / death) and insurance premiums are ridiculous with a DD code

again, only my 2p and without knowing the full details this may be totally irrelevant

[ikarl]

I think, obviously on their (police) part as its their job..to count up the smaller issues??.ie as I left the 30tuts sign I overtook someone on a bicycle using the opposit lane at speed??? dosn't say what speed however it would well below the speed limit as the distance required to get over the limit the bicycle was well passed . I'm to have passed three small holding entrances, there again no speed given. I then on the next strech of road with the shortest road marking I indecated then over took a nissan micra, there is a SLOW sign written on the road before a slight left hand bend with a junction further up on the right , where the speed increased this road was said to be in good state of repair ( this is a straight 109) at the end of this I'm to have illuminated the slow warning light before turning left into a lesser classed road at speed. There was no lights etc activated at this point.

The next section was on a sloping downhill road staight with road said to be in places patched and in not as good standerd, where I reached 92tuts ( where lights etc were said to be actvated)then slowed to take a left hand bend at the bottom of the hill which had a SLOW on the road which had farm with visable entrances to the left and farm cottages with gardens in front to the right the speed through this was recorded at 47 tuts where a pedestrian was walking on the other side of the road carried on passed the farm building going through two further corners rising to 58 tuts where I pulled in when safe to do so.

That looks quite good to me actually. Nothing you have written there demonstrates that your driving was dangerous (very fast and careless? yes) but I can imagine that your motoring solicitor will get the DD charge downgraded quite easily.
Depending on points on your licence etc, you should query with your solicitor whether a 'driving without due care and attention' would be accepted - because is reality, you did not care for the speed limits and you did not pay attention to the flashin warning signs. But not dangerous.

[Noops]

I think, obviously on their (police) part as its their job..to count up the smaller issues??.ie as I left the 30tuts sign I overtook someone on a bicycle using the opposit lane at speed??? dosn't say what speed however it would well below the speed limit as the distance required to get over the limit the bicycle was well passed . I'm to have passed three small holding entrances, there again no speed given. I then on the next strech of road with the shortest road marking I indecated then over took a nissan micra, there is a SLOW sign written on the road before a slight left hand bend with a junction further up on the right , where the speed increased this road was said to be in good state of repair ( this is a straight 109) at the end of this I'm to have illuminated the slow warning light before turning left into a lesser classed road at speed. There was no lights etc activated at this point.

The next section was on a sloping downhill road staight with road said to be in places patched and in not as good standerd, where I reached 92tuts ( where lights etc were said to be actvated)then slowed to take a left hand bend at the bottom of the hill which had a SLOW on the road which had farm with visable entrances to the left and farm cottages with gardens in front to the right the speed through this was recorded at 47 tuts where a pedestrian was walking on the other side of the road carried on passed the farm building going through two further corners rising to 58 tuts where I pulled in when safe to do so.

That looks quite good to me actually. Nothing you have written there demonstrates that your driving was dangerous (very fast and careless? yes) but I can imagine that your motoring solicitor will get the DD charge downgraded quite easily.


Depending on points on your licence etc, you should query with your solicitor whether a 'driving without due care and attention' would be accepted - because is reality, you did not care for the speed limits and you did not pay attention to the flashin warning signs. But not dangerous.

Good point and somewhere a long the lines of my thinking, however the last points you mentioned are spot on, and for the record I have no points at this time.

[tut]

Leave the Country straight away noops..........



tut

[GregR]

If Noops can convince the PF to accept a Newton Plea (that being - you agree you were speeding excessively but you disagree that it was over 100. i.e. 97mph)

A whit?

[ikarl]

a newton plea is where you plead guilty to a similar offence that carries a lesser charge.

*basically, you're admitting guilt to make the PF's job easier. They will need to work hard to make a DD charge stick, they generally take the easier way out.
a good example would be someone up for murder that pleads guilty to manslaughter!

[Noops]

Leave the Country straight away noops..........



tut

Tut, my plan was to go round the country starting tomorrow.......... perhaps leaving would be a better option

[GregR]

a newton plea is where you plead guilty to a similar offence that carries a lesser charge.

*basically, you're admitting guilt to make the PF's job easier. They will need to work hard to make a DD charge stick, they generally take the easier way out.
a good example would be someone up for murder that pleads guilty to manslaughter!

I wonder if therein lies your problem - there's no such thing as manslaughter north of the border. Are you a criminal lawyer in Scotland?

[ikarl]

No, I'm definitely not a criminal lawyer north of the border

I was just using that as an example to get the point across in the simplest terms....

I used a Newton Plea when caught in excess of 120tuts on my bike, the police 5series had to accelerate to catch up / keep up that they claimed my speed ranged from 110 - 140 . The PF was initially looking for DD
I went to court, spoke to the PF and got an 'agreed guilty' of 96 mph. In court I was given a right good bollicking, 6 points and £400 fine. Spoke to the PF afterwards and they agreed they were happy with the judgement, it saved them a lot of time and the hassle of getting the police in court too

[GregR]

What you did was called plea bargaining. As far as I'm aware - and I profess no expertise in the field of criminal law - is that a Newton plea is an English anomoly.

[ikarl]

not so much an anomoly as it is case law, but yes a plea bargain is what Noops should be looking for

[scott_e]

Quick post while i remember. DUNDEE , Silver VW Passat Estate unmarked, Tinted rear windows. 58 Plate.

Also got pulled by a VW dark blue Passat saloon a year or so too , again Tinted rear windows. Nice chap let me off with warning though.

Seems the forces in Dundee like VWs.

[Noops]

Hello pumkins,

Seems my man in an expencive tie and hair cut is....... on the side of the PF looked at the disk and went why do you think your not fcuk.... ,his bid for redusing the bla bla to speeding was binned for my apearance in coart.

Twats with ties are just that........


Comments welcome....