Independence SE Poll

[vet111s]

Disgraceful scenes in Glasgow yesterday all in the name of the union. Agree it would have happened whatever the outcome but these loyalist thugs make my blood boil!!

[robin]

You speak like the papers aren't biased. Who owns them?

Neil,

Don't you know the answer to this question? I might be interested in reading some analysis on who owns "the papers" and why they are bound to be so biased as to make sure that all the papers are pro-union, but I am not interested enough to do the leg work myself.

I'd save the smugness for 12 months time when we see the real effect of the vote

You seem to be pretty down about the whole thing, which I can understand, but your tone is pretty aggressive and it feels as though you are telling off the no voters. Apologies if I have misread your posts (and please note this is my personal opinion, not moderation in any way).

Whatever you think is going to happen next, the yes campaign is as much to blame as the no campaign (after all, why call a referendum that you would most likely lose and thus strengthen the hand of the rabid "scrounging jocks" brigade?).

Cheers,
Robin

[rossybee]

The way I see it, (as almost every yesser I know is jumping at the slightest mention of time slippage or watering down of promises made by Westminster) is that even if there are delays or dilutions, it's still a step in the right direction.

And I fully understand the rUK saying "and what about us?", as we'd all be the same.

[tut]

The only way it could have ever been a Yes vote was if restrictions had been laid down on voting rights.

This could have been along the lines of you had to be Scottish, I believe the lowest criteria for this is a Grandparent, or have lived in the Country for a minimum period of time, 5-10 years. However that would have gone down like a lead balloon with those that did not qualify, but the opposite for those that did.

Hopefully most will now feel as I do, I voted no because I was not prepared to take a chance on negative changes, but if it had been a Yes I would have accepted it without being upset and hoped optimistically that it would turn out for the good.

As for the low lives on both sides, this was always going to happen, so no surprises there.

tut

[neil]

You seem to be pretty down about the whole thing, which I can understand, but your tone is pretty aggressive and it feels as though you are telling off the no voters. Apologies if I have misread your posts (and please note this is my personal opinion, not moderation in any way).

Whatever you think is going to happen next, the yes campaign is as much to blame as the no campaign (after all, why call a referendum that you would most likely lose and thus strengthen the hand of the rabid "scrounging jocks" brigade?).

Cheers,
Robin

Sorry about the tone folks - re-reading the last few posts they are a bit on the aggressive side I probably should have got more sleep Thursday night.

I guess I'm just a bit frustrated with the whole thing - it's had Lose/Lose written all over it for a long time. Whichever way the vote had gone changes are coming, and whether these will be good or bad for us has yet to be seen. At least the votes now out of the way and we can go back to talking about more important things like small plastic cars

[tut]

Brown very impressive in his speech at the moment, and hopefully reassuring to the Yes voters that the promised changes are going to be delivered, are already going ahead, and will be on time.

He is also acting as the fourth member of the group along with the three Party leaders, that will be putting them in place.

tut

[Mikie711]

Only time will tell.
Be interesting to see in a years time what things look like and what changes have been implemented and how effective they have been.
Haven't seen Brown's latest but sure it was very eloquent and full of reassurances.
However, talks cheap and not all of Westminster appears sold on the idea, again time will tell.
One thing is absolutely certain and that is that no matter what changes are brought to bear Westminster will look after Westminster.

[David]

I think there's an assumption that all No voters agreed with increased powers. I suspect there are many that are indifferent, or oppose them. We will never know what difference it made to the results, but DC will be plagued with that question for some time. But it's done now, and if they don't carry it through (and my guess is that they will over time), I'm not sure there would be much trouble. The people have spoken and it was a resounding vote of confidence in the UK and most will be happy to let the political process run it's course.

As for the SNP - they have been exposed for what they are. I am looking forward to the YES campaign post mortem and hearing the unguarded comments. They will regroup, I just hope they take the blinkers off and offer us something that has proper substance as well as vision.

[campbell]

Is it the end of the SNP?

Who will take power at the next Scottish General Election?

What is Gordon Brown's new role going to be? (Leader of Scottish Labour Party?)

[Mikie711]

Is it the end of the SNP?

Who will take power at the next Scottish General Election?

What is Gordon Brown's new role going to be? (Leader of Scottish Labour Party?)

I sincerly hope not, if we only have labour, torry and lib dem as the mane contenders then we face the inverse fate of the General Election.
Lets face it though, does it really matter because they are all lying, useless, self serving oxygen theifs anyway.

[tut]

I don't think that the SNP will suffer as a result of this, and I would bet on them getting in again at the next Election.

Brown has said that he will not be returning to politics again, hard to believe that he has gone from being considered as one of the worst PM's ever, to the two performances that he has put in during the past week.

"D McGee: Having just heard Gordon Brown speaking in Dunfermline this morning, I can't believe that it is the same man who was a moderate Chancellor and a lacklustre Prime Minister, could speak with such great common sense and so passionately about reconciliation. Without his intervention the Yes campaign could well have won and left the UK."

I think the three things that swung it at the end were his first speech up here, the scare that one poll gave to the No voters, and what would happen to the currency. Why the hell anybody put any credence to that one poll I do not know, every other one had been the other way, although the best bet was to ignore the lot of them and follow the Bookie odds. They were consistently around the 1/4 mark which is why I was always confident that it was going to be a No vote. It is their business and they do not set odds like that unless they are near 100% certain that they have got it correct.

tut

[fd]

Yes could easily have won the referendum, all they needed to do was present a viable, comprehensive and well researched case that showed the benefit for Scottish people rather than try to bull$hit people, secondly a different leader, perhaps a less patronising and easily dislikable one, would have helped. I voted No, I may have voted Yes if this had been the case, however I simply didn't buy the Yes case, and almost everybody I know was of roughly the same view. No wasn't an endorsement of Westminster, or a belief that any promises made by the westminster parties would be delivered, more a vote of no confidence in team Yes because if they fscked it up I end up paying and I'm not into paying for idealistic experiments. Sure, that wasn't the question on the ballot paper, but thats the way it works. The SNP lost the referendum, it was theirs to win, and they muffed it (to quote their ex glorious leader).

[Claws]

Yes could easily have won the referendum, all they needed to do was present a viable, comprehensive and well researched case that showed the benefit for Scottish people rather than try to bull$hit people, secondly a different leader, perhaps a less patronising and easily dislikable one, would have helped. I voted No, I may have voted Yes if this had been the case, however I simply didn't buy the Yes case, and almost everybody I know was of roughly the same view. No wasn't an endorsement of Westminster, or a belief that any promises made by the westminster parties would be delivered, more a vote of no confidence in team Yes because if they fscked it up I end up paying and I'm not into paying for idealistic experiments. Sure, that wasn't the question on the ballot paper, but thats the way it works. The SNP lost the referendum, it was theirs to win, and they muffed it (to quote their ex glorious leader).

This x1000

[Lazydonkey]

Is it the end of the SNP?

Who will take power at the next Scottish General Election?

What is Gordon Brown's new role going to be? (Leader of Scottish Labour Party?)

I sincerly hope not, if we only have labour, torry and lib dem as the mane contenders then we face the inverse fate of the General Election.
Lets face it though, does it really matter because they are all lying, useless, self serving oxygen theifs anyway.

What about the independent candidates?

PR is meant to be the end of party dominated politics. Why can't we get some of those people who were going to help to govern an indy Scotland to stand now?

[Mikie711]

Worth a read