Independence SE Poll

[Shug]

The problem now is that devolution is hot on the agenda for all in the union. Everybody wants it, so where does that leave the union if each member is doing their own thing?
Ironically their is now an independance movement building in England.

You do what should have been done all along. Listen to the will of the people and make changes to make it all fairer. You can internally devolve a lot of power and control whilst still maintaining the framework and integrity of a larger United Kingdom to the wider world. That's the ideal for me, and I'd guess a reasonable proportion of the silent majority that came out and voted no last week.

There was a lot of talk that Scotland overpays into the UK Exchequer, so I don't understand the fear about revisiting the split of funding? As long as it's done in a properly representative way and takes into consideration the wide variety of factors in all locations, not just Scotland versus England. England getting more local powers would tend to tally with Scotland also getting more local powers - surely a win-win?

[Mikie711]

What they should do is devolve the entire spending and income generation powers to all 4 and take bursary payments as a % GDP from the 4 countries for defense, foreign policy, the queen etc etc .

But I can’t see them doing anything like that. What we will likely end up with is tax raising powers but no ability to vary tax rates only put them up.

Time will tell.

[Shug]

What they should do is devolve the entire spending and income generation powers to all 4 and take bursary payments as a % GDP from the 4 countries for defense, foreign policy, the queen etc etc .

But I can’t see them doing anything like that. What we will likely end up with is tax raising powers but no ability to vary tax rates only put them up.

Time will tell.

Why 4? Historical national boundaries make little or no sense any more. I, in my location, have more in common with a small village in Norfolk than I do with someone in Aberdeen or Edinburgh - so why should decisions be made in a remote city that impact a rural community? Edinburgh is just as irrelevant to me as London is.

So, do we go properly Federal and work on a county basis? You see where I'm going here - Scotland/England/Wales/Ulster are largely irrelevant concepts apart from historical pride. Local power needs to be properly local and therefore devolution on this basis clearly needs a larger-scale framework, as we clearly can't have separate tax offices in every county.

There's no easy answer, but neither is there a simple UK versus Independant Scotland split - it's far more complicated than that.

[campbell]

What are the pros and cons of the Swiss cantonal model? They even support four distinct languages. Five if you include English.

[David]

What are the pros and cons of the Swiss cantonal model? They even support four distinct languages. Five if you include English.

We spent a couple of weeks there this summer. I must say it took a while to get my head round what was going on both culturally and politically. First impressions were that it seemed like a wealthy, tolerant, and well organised society. But after a while, I found it very cliquish where the local identity was by the company they kept. It was also the first time in many years I've witnessed clear and open racism. Yes, they have a great public services but there seemed to be little ambition as a state and the population seemed frustrated and resigned to their of role of servants to the world's rich.

The UK on the other hand, does have ambition and a sparkle in the eye. We're on the move, and that's a nice place to be. I'd rather be here any day.

[campbell]

Fascinating take, David. Our close friends who settled there and started their family are loving it. They do acknowledge some of the points you made.

So where *is* an example of the target operating model for UK, I wonder?

[Rosssco]

Perhaps there is no perfect model because everyone is different and wnats different things! Precisely one of the issues I had with the whole independance thing - it was ultimately a blunt tool in splitting a country along a historic, geographic border, whilst at the same time promising opportunity to reshape society to lots of disparate groups with their own tailored visions of what society should be for them...

Some people want the socialist model with a 'well-ordered' society, but it just seems very boring.. On the other hand, the liberalist approach can breed inequality and ultimately suffering for some sections of society, but seem to be more vibrant with more real opportunity for those who take it..

[campbell]

George Orwell had a few ideas!

[renmure]

On hols in Greece at the moment and the 1st question from the Greeks,... After the obligatory and polite .."where are you from?" relates to the referendum and how we voted. Seems like news of our "local debate" was fairly widely reported here.

[thinfourth]

What they should do is devolve the entire spending and income generation powers to all 4 and take bursary payments as a % GDP from the 4 countries for defense, foreign policy, the queen etc etc .

But I can’t see them doing anything like that. What we will likely end up with is tax raising powers but no ability to vary tax rates only put them up.

Time will tell.

you think the scottish government would reduce taxes



How else do we get all the free stuff

[Mikie711]

There is more than just income tax FFS.

[woody]

What they should do is devolve the entire spending and income generation powers to all 4 and take bursary payments as a % GDP from the 4 countries for defense, foreign policy, the queen etc etc .

But I can’t see them doing anything like that. What we will likely end up with is tax raising powers but no ability to vary tax rates only put them up.

Time will tell.

you think the scottish government would reduce taxes



How else do we get all the free stuff

Move on.

[scott_e]

Maybe of interest:


SNP membership soars to over 65,000
Fri, 26/09/2014 - 12:17


The SNP has today welcomed the news that total membership has reached and surpassed 65,000 – with over 39,000 new members in just one week since the referendum.

The SNP membership now outstrips the UK wide Lib Dem membership and the 39,000 + new members alone and is greater than all the other parties’ membership totals in Scotland combined.

The total number 65,047 - as of 9am Friday – in context it is enough to:

· Fill every seat at the National Stadium Hampden Park – and at the same time Dens Park, Dundee - and still have with over 1400 people left over.

· Fill every seat at The SSE Hydro seats in Glasgow five and half times over.

· Fill The Usher Hall Concert Hall in Edinburgh nearly 30 times over.

Commenting, SNP Business Convener Derek Mackay MSP said:

“The extraordinary influx of new members joining the SNP is still rising and I am delighted that so many people from every part of Scotland have recognised that the best way to deliver change is with the SNP.

“This membership happened organically and contrasts starkly with the No campaign parties in the last few days – we have overtaken the Lib Dems at UK level and Labour are in complete disarray in Scotland.

“Henry McLeish’s comments are absolutely right – Labour’s position in Scotland is growing more precarious by the day as more and more people in traditional Labour heartlands switch to the SNP.

“Labour voters simply won’t forget Johann Lamont’s alliance with the Tories in the No campaign – which is exactly why the SNP is now sitting at 49 per cent in the polls.

“It is clearly the SNP that the people of Scotland trust to stand up for Scotland’s interests – and to hold the Westminster establishment to account on their vow of substantial more powers for Scotland. This new democratic movement in Scotland won’t accept the same old politics as usual from Westminster.”

REF: http://www.snp.org/media-centre/news/20 ... over-65000

[j2 lot]

I wonder how much talk of another Independence referendum will follow, especially if/ when they do well in the 2015 UK, and 2016 Local Elections.

[Mikie711]

Doubt it will happen until a General election campaign. Will need one of the Westminster parties to offer a referendum as a carrot for the Scottish vote. So at least another 5 years.