Scottish Elises

Right, I've had enough and I've decided I'm going to complain to MMC. Anyone know who I should address my complaint to?

I bought my '05 Elise 111R from the Glasgow MMC (their last Lotus) a couple of weeks ago. It was an ex-demo with under 4000 miles on the clock. I did not notice any problems during the test drive, but since owning the car, have discovered several small problems. I feel as if I'm discovering a new problem almost every day and it's really starting to frustrate me.

IMO, the car was not given a full inspection and service (as promised) before I picked it up. There is no way it could have been given a full inspection without these problems being noticed. I may be a bit pedantic, but I would expect any car bought from a dealer to have a full inspection before the customer picks it up.

My problems and minor complaints are as follows:

1. No manual: They have ordered a new one for me, but how can you lose a manual for the car when it's a demo and has never been owned by anyone?!

2. No Tyre Foam: This was in the salesman's desk drawer (!) and I had to go back in to pick it up.

3. CD Player: The CD player would not read CDs.

4. Lock button: The central locking button below the gearstick had been disconnected and therefore did not work.

5. Power supply: The power supply does not work.

6. Wind noise: There is considerably more wind noise from the driver's window than the passenger side. I'm not sure if it's not sealed properly.

7. Rattle: I have a metallic rattle from the offside rear of the car, generally at lower speeds.

8. Squeak from rear: Something at the rear of the car is squeaking (not the tyres) when cornering.

9. Gear stick squeak: The gear stick squeaks when changing into Reverse, 1st, 3rd and 5th.

10. Brake hissing/squeaking: The brake pedal hisses and squeaks. I have been told that the hissing is just the servo and happens on all 111R's. Can anyone else confirm this? It only hisses with engine on. Squeaks all the time though.

11. Window Washers: When I brake reasonably hard, washer fluid squirts out of the window washers. They think a valve is stuck open.

12. Driver's seat loose: The drivers seat is a bit loose and rocks/clicks a little if you move about in it.

13. Seal coming off: The rubber seal on the car body just next to the bolt for the door is peeling off.

14. Steering wheel scrape: The steering wheel makes a plastic scraping noise when cornering at low speeds (e.g. parking). I have been told there is nothing that can be done about this, but I don't accept that.

15. Loose heating knob: One of the metal heater knobs fell off within two days of owning the car. I put it back on and tightened it up with an allen key, but I would have expected small things like this to have been checked.

16. Roof spine insert: One of the black inserts for the roof spines has fallen off. It obviously stays in when the roof spine is inserted, but it falls off every time I take the roof off.

17. Car cleanliness: I was told that the car would have a full valet before I picked it up (yet again, something I would expect of any dealer). This was clearly a lie. The inside was covered in dust. When I cleaned the car for the first time, it was absolutely filthy inside. Clearly the first time the windows had been cleaned.

18. Registration date: This isn't a technical complaint, but MMC gave the wrong date to the DVLA for the date of handover for the V5 document that I've just received. They gave a date 3 days early. This means that if anyone was speeding in the car a couple of days before I picked it up, I'll get the ticket for it! I'm obviously going to phone the DVLA and get this changed, but I don't think it's too difficult for MMC to get this date right when filling in the DVLA docs.

I realise these complaints vary in seriousness. Some are very minor, but I really still don't expect to pay the amount I did for that car and for it not to have had a full inspection before I pick it up. I was told it had a full service before I picked it up (and have the documents from the service), but they definitely did not carry out a thorough inspection.

I realise that a hand-built car will always have a few niggles, squeaks and rattles, but I'm really frustrated at all these problems and the way they've built up day by day. It's not the level of service I'd expect from a Lotus dealership.

I've already had to go back into MMC Glasgow twice and now I've got to take the car all the way through to MMC Edinburgh tomorrow to get things checked/fixed under warranty. I've clearly had to expend time and money and I'm therefore going to officially complain and demand a full apology and some kind of compensation.

Who should I complain to? Should I demand anything as compensation for all of this?

Cheers,
D

(Sorry for the really long post!).

Just complain to Lotus

Hey there

The guy I'd advise you speak to is the MD of the John Martin Group, Gordon Nisbet, and he's based at their office at Seafield Road in Edinburgh.

Worth making Lotus aware, but all the issues are really with the dealer rather than warranty problems that they are aware of.

It does seem like a lot of 'things' which individually might be bearable and perhaps over looked until 1st service time. But, when listed together, I can see why you are Pissed off.

Not sure that I have noticed Brake servo hissing/squeeling on my 111R tho.

Mind you, the day after taking possession of my brand new 111R, the whole interior roof lining fell off into the car. When I went back to MMC that day, the suggestion was that I went to B&Q and got some double sided tape to attempt to re-attach it!!!

Before war broke out, Graham in Sales exchanged it for one from the showroom and sent the dud one back to Lotus to be exchanged.

No help to you really, but I would try to keep the complaint local at MMC since they are the folk you would expect to put it right. YOu can always complain higher up if the need arises.

Jim

Thanks for the advice guys. I think I'll take the following strategy:

- One final phone call to my salesman at Glasgow MMC;
- If nothing comes of that, letter to Gorden Nisbet;
- If nothing comes of that, letter to Lotus.

I hope I'm going to get all this sorted once and for all tomorrow while the car's at the Edinburgh MMC for the day, but I'm still going to complain even if everything gets fixed.

Cheers,
D

Dezzy,

I would advise emailing Gavin in Glasgow - always seems to keep MMC on their toes to know there's a record of the correspondence.

Just bear in mind, you have a right to reject the car under the good old Sale of Goods Act if its not up to scratch. Likewise, if you bought the car on credit, you have a 14 day 'cooling off' period that you can use in terms of the Consumer Credit Act to reject the car if you want.

Best of luck,

Greg

I'm afraid I've just missed the 14 day cooling off period. I really don't want to return it, but if I don't get these things sorted and they don't offer me some kind of compensation, I might have to use that Sale of Goods Act.

Greg - what's the time limit for the Sale of Goods Act? Really don't want to have to use it, but would be good to be informed. You got any links on it, so I could read up on it?

Cheers,
D

Not too much available to me here at home, but click on this link

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts1994/Uk ... 5_en_2.htm

that gives you the amendment to the 1979 Act that inserted the 'implied terms' of the contract of sale

The steering wheel scrape is caused by the contact points for the horn. You can fix that by putting a bit of grease on I believe. Mine does it but I've not been that bothered to do anything about it.

I have lost count of the number of times I have read on SE about sub standard service from MMC. Wonder if anyone there reads this forum...

Mark

Can I refer to my problems with MMC

http://www.scottishelises.com/phpbb/vie ... highlight=

That after sales service by this company is a problem, is clear to me despite my short time as a member.

I have read a number of posts with regard to poor service and outright neglect or damage of our property at Edinburgh, Glasgow and Perth.

The question is, what are we going to do about it?

The size of our group gives us significant lobbying power to make things change. But ,while complaining to each other about things helps increase awareness of the problem, ultimately nobody in MMC or Lotus is listening.

We cannot hope that somebody from either organization may happen across these complaints when visiting our site, let alone be prepared to make changes on our behalf.

Traveling to other places (Newcastle) is fine for those of us from Edinburgh but not so simple for everyone.

After so many complaints, just what action is it that members wish to take?

Perhaps if we are unwilling to approach either Lotus or MMC, postings about the poor quality of MMC business should be banned.

NR

I doubt that censorship of the problem would solve anything, and would remove any opportunity for people to gain advice and or vent frustration.

Dezzy, another wee tit-bit is:-
Bernstein v Pamson Motors (Golders Green) Ltd [1987] 2 All E.R. 220


Abstract: When considering whether a new car is of merchantable quality the Court should consider whether the car can be driven safely, the ease or otherwise of repairing the defect, whether it can be completely repaired, whether there are a number of minor defects and possibly any cosmetic factors. Any rejection of the car, however, must be within a reasonable time of taking delivery.

B bought a new Nissan motor car, which about three weeks after delivery broke down on the motorway; it had done 140 miles. B advised PM that he rejected the car as not being of merchantable quality. PM repaired the car, so that it was as good as new, but B refused to have it back. B claimed rescission and damages.

Summary: Held, that B was not entitled to rescind, but could claim damages limited to his cost in getting home after the breakdown, the loss of a full tank of petrol, compensation for his ruined day out, and for his loss of use while the car was being repaired (five days). When required to determine whether a car was unmerchantable the Court should consider (i) whether the car can be driven safely, (ii) the ease or otherwise of repairing the defect, (iii) whether the defect can be completely repaired, (iv) whether there are a number of minor defects and possibly (v) any cosmetic factors which appear to be relevant. On that approach the car was not of merchantable quality. B had, however, lost his right to reject because he had had the car for three weeks and had driven it for 140 miles: he had thus had sufficient time to try the car.

i.e., you'll need to move pronto if you wish to reject the car mate

There would be little need to express anger or seek advice if the problem was solved or improved.

NR

I'll reiterate a post that Mac made a few weeks ago (and seemed to be ignored)

We have two threads running at the top of the Meets section (as it's locked to non-members) Copy your post there, but facts only (as in your first post) Any comments will be deleted, as we're going to try and use these threads to correlate the facts about actual treatment received by our members first hand.

So - if you want something done - use the threads and give it time for us to collate all the info we can.

It's very unlikely I'd want to return the car (even if I could) . . . I like it too much, even with this list of problems!

I've not had a problem with MMC after-sales or service in general. The staff have all been great so far and they've not damaged my car or anything like that. The thing I'm complaining about is that I have had a load of problems that really should have been caught before I even picked the car up, as they are things that should have been fixed during an inspection and service.

I dropped the car off this morning and the staff at the Edinburgh MMC have so far been very helpful and understanding. Should have the car back tomorrow. I'll let you know if they manage to resolve everything.

However, even if everything is resolved, it is always still worth complaining so that this doesn't happen to someone else in future and also due to the time, money and effort I've had to expend in getting these things resolved.

Cheers,
D