Vettel

[Gareth]

He's not talented enough to worthy his 9 in a row.
That car is just incredibly fast. For example, he passed Rosberg on lap 2 and just disappeared. Even within half a lap he was 2 secs ahead (or what looked liked it). I don't believe that's down to being a far superior driver that the rest of the field.
It's almost not fair giving how quick that car is.

Discuss...

[Mikie711]

Agree, the talent behind the wheel is eclipsed by the talent that designed the car. For me it is an example of Newey's brilliance in F1 car design and has little to do with Vettel. Virtually any of the top 10 drivers in F1 would have similar success given that car. Webber, as nice a guy as he is, was never that great a driver and was plagued with some incredible bad luck. Some may argue that some of that was down to the team and not his own making, never the less he was pretty much always an also ran rather than a title likely.

To summarise, Newey brilliant, Vettel cock.

[Lazydonkey]

You could argue the same about many of the champions in the past when they had superior cars.

[woody]

Webber had a total of 9 career wins in the same cars as Vettel had 9 wins in a row and 4 titles with.

Now Webber isn't a top line driver, but probably second tier. I'd say that makes Vettel pretty talanted.

I don't buy all the Webber's had much worse luck and Vettel stole a win this year; there was a good analysis of the Rb reliability by driver on SELOC that showed there was no significant disparity, and Webber did similar a few seasons ago.

[Rosssco]

I agree it is becoming a bit of a chore to watch, and I fear I may loose interest much like the Schmucker years, but its ultimately down to the car / driver combo, but in that, if you put any of the "top" drivers in the RB (Alonso, Hamilton, Kimi..) they would be capable of pulling off the same feat, or at least win the title. I truly hope 2014 rules changes will even things up and get us back to the competitive racing we've grown to love again over the past few years (2012, 2013 not included).

Not taking anything away from Vettel (although I detest that German-twanged celebratory "Yes!" he does..), he is one of the best drivers out there, but not a great, which his record seems to indicate.. IMO.

[Mikie711]

Not disputing that Woody but they certainly have a clear advantage with the RB9. There was an article in race car engineer about the current car and why it runs so much more rake than the rest of the field and also about how they deploy their KERS differently to everybody else. In essence the question was why they had slower top end speed through the speed traps but had higher average speed than everybody down the same straight and how they managed it. Obviously they have higher corner entry and exit speeds, but at the start of the season they were really struggling with their set up due to the change in the pirelli tyres. Once everybody changed back to the original compound they disappeared into the distance. Can't find the article now but something to do with how they control the ride height of the car and the way it interacted with the tyre meant they couldn't achieve the same level of control with the higher degradation rate of the "new" tyre as they could with the one that ended the season.

There is no doubt that Vettel is a good driver but I still don't believe he is that good. Schumacher went to Ferrari and galvanised the team around him and consequently developed a car that had a clear advantage over the rest of the field and was built around his driving style. Vettel didn't and has lucked into a very well design package that has given him a clear advantage over the rest of the field.

He drives the RB9 great, but isn't a great driver IMHO.

[111Robin]

How did Vettel perform relative to others in the lower formulae ?. Don't know anyhting about him pre F1, would be interesting to see how he compared then on a more level playing field.

[j2 lot]

He drives the RB9 great, but isn't a great driver IMHO.

I said something similar in a different thread recently. He gets the best out of the best car and wins because he starts at the front and runs away with it but if he isnt at the front he isnt the best overtaker or the best in 'wheel to wheel combat '

I still cant rank him as an all time great despite the number of records he is smashing because there havent been many/ any truly epic battles to get to the front.

Alonso and probably Hamilton have the ability to wring a cars neck and drive it on the on the ragged edge and beyond its natural pecking order to achieve results it doesnt deserve.

[dlogan]

I liked that Anthonby Davidson remarked yesterday that all too often Newey gets all the credit for the cars and the design when in fact his right hand man (his name escapes me) should get more, and this guy is the Lead Aerodynamicist who is leaving Red Bull to go to Mclaren. Too late for the 2014 season but heres hoping!

I dont think that Vettel is "the best" in the pack but as much as we all hate it, his mistakes were few and far between, he was flawless in his 9 in a row, and unfortunately the F1 world now means its not the best drivers coming through anymore, its the ones with the biggest backing. (Yes some will say thats always been the case of having pay drivers, however it feels more so than ever now.)

[ClarkyBoy]

I agree,

while vettel is a phenominal driver... not that I like him at all.... the car is streets ahead of everything else on the grid,

this makes interesting reading,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24659085

although webber is in the 'same car' lets face it, he's not really is he?

id like to see how they would get on swapping cars + set-up!

[Scotty C]

so why do you all hate him?

[Modena Scotland]

Vettel is talented and a good driver, no doubt about it at all. He can overtake when needed.

So are Alonso and Hamilton.

However, Vettel was lucky to have Webber as his team mate, who made it easier for him to win races.

[ClarkyBoy]

I am just hugely Jealous,

that is all.

[Corranga]

I'm not fan, but agree that he's top 10 (8?) anyway, which essentially means he's a number 1 driver for one of the teams.
No team (currently - based on 2013 line ups) has 2 number 1 drivers, Lotus probably come closest with Kimi and Roman.

He will go down as an all time great simply because of the records / stats, but I think there will always be a 'but he had the fastest car' thought, at least for some of us.
For me, you simply have to look at other world champions that won in the fastest car, and not so much on ability and see how they are regarded.
Damon Hill, Jacques Villeneuve, Jenson Button...
For me, each of them is the same, big budget team with the fastest car for that particular season.

Essentially, he's lucky enough to be the fastest driver within the team with the biggest budget, who have managed to buy the key staff all at the same time.

[sendmyusername]

Regards his 9 in a row, plus his record number of wins in a season.
Isn't there a lot more races in the season nowadays ?
I'm not detracting from his success, just asking is it comparable.
Another point is that both alonso and schumacher, possibly hamilton all won or took it to the wire in cars that shouldn't have been capable of that.
Biggest problem I have with F1 now is the same reason that Mark has had enough.
It's not about how fast a car can go anymore. It's all about how slowly it can go to finish first.
I don't think we have seen any of the cars driven flat out anymore.
If vettle can make a second a lap, why doesn't he lap everyone up to 3rd place ?
It's because he goes flat out for three or four laps, then just controls his pace.
He is too interested in preserving his engine gearbox tyres etc.
That's a marathon, not the sprints of old.

Plus backmarkers on different strategies, used to try and hold up the front runners after they had pitted as it worked into their stratagies for later in the race.
Nowadays how common is the message - you are not racing x let him past.