Scottish Independance - debate

[KingK_series]

ok on the basis that anything goes on this index... a political debate.


so.... I am really curious how the debate is going with Scots and how the debate is being presented by Salmond Swinney and co and more especially in Scottish media -?

I'm not even sure whether you guys see the same "BBC' as we do or if you have a Scottish BBC as my mother has a West Country BBC in Somerset?

- most of all , post Carney tech talk and post Osborne/Clegg/Milliband declaration that under no circumstances would an independent Scotland be able to keep the UK pound or the Bank of England as a bank of last resort - how many people think that is really {!} Westminster bluff ?

and how do people in Scotland think the rest of the UK think about Salmond's claim it's all bluff?


- there are a lot of Scots on BBC here saying it's all bullying anfd bluff, so my question is - is that how a lot of people think? and do people in Scotland think or ask at all how the rest of the UK think about this issue and the "bluff" claim?


- hope this will be a serious and useful thread - please let it be....

[Corranga]

We do get BBC Scotland. if you have sky, you might find it up around channel 950, that's where the other regional channels are.
It's mostly the same though, except news I suppose. Any YES fan will probably tell you that the BBC are biased towards Better Together though.

I suppose I'll start this of nice and easy.
I'm a proud Scot. I love being Scottish, my iPod have Flower of Scotland on it, and I own at least 2 Scottish flags.
I don't like God Save the Queen, and I moan when Andy Murray becomes British when he wins and Scottish when he loses.

I'm voting no.

I'm also proud to be British. I love my English wife and her family, and am happy to stand beside my fellow county men and woman regardless of any politics. Of course I also want what's best for me and my family, but the Yes lot have so far only proven they can write long documents that read like wish lists with little to no real plan on how they can provide.
I remember being a kid and asking for 100 things for Christmas.
I learnt that you don't get everything you want, a lesson than some others clearly missed..

Chris

[Corranga]

Oh and i reckon the currency thing is maybe a bit of scaremongering the only thing they can stop is a currency union.
To be honest is common sense, you wouldn't sign a financial agreement with something as high risk add a new country would you?

I suppose the truth is that an independent Scotland could choose to use the US dollar if it liked, or simply trade sheep and pigs, add long as it has value in the world economy is kinda irrelevant...
I'm sure there is a reason that's a bad idea but the debate at the moment seems now about making big headlines than actually trying to inform the people.

[j2 lot]

I had an e-mail from a friend from the North East of England, now based down, asking if Salmond gets taken seriously here as he is seen as a crack pot In Englandshire. I assured him that he is seen as a crack pot by (just) the majority here, let's hope that continues as the long term future would be bleak if the referendum goes his way (All IMHO of course, and other people are entitled to their opinions too, as long as they realise they are wrong )

I don't think the UK Gov 'threat' is a bluff, I think they would see it through and we would end up with our own currency , therefore none of the UK debt and as a result a crap financial rating

[KingK_series]

Oh and i reckon the currency thing is maybe a bit of scaremongering the only thing they can stop is a currency union.
To be honest is common sense, you wouldn't sign a financial agreement with something as high risk add a new country would you?

I suppose the truth is that an independent Scotland could choose to use the US dollar if it liked, or simply trade sheep and pigs, add long as it has value in the world economy is kinda irrelevant...
I'm sure there is a reason that's a bad idea but the debate at the moment seems now about making big headlines than actually trying to inform the people.

Thankyou


thankyou for your reply, thankyou for your honesty,

the thing is about the currency - is that it's not just about the currency -

the way people down south look at it is - who does Salmond think he is trying to dictate the terms...?

AND why does he not get what both Carney and Macpherson have said in very dispassionate, technical exposition of the mechanics of the whole thing

- in short Salmond Swinney and Sturgeon all seem to think that they can insist on a 'euro [ie GREECE/GERMANY/SPAIN etc] type' financial agreement to share the pound and we the rest of the UK will delight in agreeing that, just to save 500 million in bank exchange rate fees/year


and...... claim that the clear dispassionate technical argument that this is not in the best interests of the English, Welsh and N. Irish is bluff and bullying...

- so I am really interested to understand how many people really believe it is all bluff and bullying....?

- I do agree the NO campaign is awful, for simply not being positive enough and being clear about what a yes vote would really mean.... but hey the technocrats have been blindingly clear..

[KingK_series]

thankyou for the replys guys...

\keep it coming

I really want to know how it's shaping up in Scotland

[j2 lot]

A lot of what the SNP claim they want needs other countries/ bodies/organisations to play ball. In the event of a Yes vote there is no reason for them to allow 'us' to get our way , the fact that they are telling us that now is being promoted as scaremongering and negative campaigning by the SNP.
My worry is that people start believing that the No vote is anti Scotland and vote accordingly.
Whatever way the vote goes what the SNP have created is a lot of bad feeling within Scotland and within the UK.

[renmure]

Whatever way the vote goes what the SNP have created is a lot of bad feeling within Scotland and within the UK.

Hardly.

The SNP name is a bit of a giveaway as to their political agenda. Despite the electoral system in Scotland being structured to prevent an SNP majority, we (the electorate) voted them in to just that and, not surprisingly (and perhaps admirably) they are doing what they said they would do in terms of holding a referendum. Fancy that!!

My political view is too conservative (small c and big C) to be a "Yes" supporter and I would be surprised if there is anything approaching a decisive Yes vote. However, if there is residual "bad feeling" out there then I think the broad brush political posturing and bully-boy attitude of the main "Unionist" parties will be remembered long after the details of each campaign are forgotten. IMHO

[KingK_series]

A lot of what the SNP claim they want needs other countries/ bodies/organisations to play ball. In the event of a Yes vote there is no reason for them to allow 'us' to get our way , the fact that they are telling us that now is being promoted as scaremongering and negative campaigning by the SNP.
My worry is that people start believing that the No vote is anti Scotland and vote accordingly.
Whatever way the vote goes what the SNP have created is a lot of bad feeling within Scotland and within the UK.

Do you feel there is anti 'rest of the UK' feeling being created by the debate? or by the fact that all three major parties have said no to any form of currency union and - that that is said three parties bullying the Scottish vote?

really really want to understand how people feel about this....

[KingK_series]

Whatever way the vote goes what the SNP have created is a lot of bad feeling within Scotland and within the UK.

Hardly.

The SNP name is a bit of a giveaway as to their political agenda. Despite the electoral system in Scotland being structured to prevent an SNP majority, we (the electorate) voted them in to just that and, not surprisingly (and perhaps admirably) they are doing what they said they would do in terms of holding a referendum. Fancy that!!

My political view is too conservative (small c and big C) to be a "Yes" supporter and I would be surprised if there is anything approaching a decisive Yes vote. However, if there is residual "bad feeling" out there then I think the broad brush political posturing and bully-boy attitude of the main "Unionist" parties will be remembered long after the details of each campaign are forgotten. IMHO

However, if there is residual "bad feeling" out there then I think the broad brush political posturing and bully-boy attitude of the main "Unionist" parties will be remembered long after the details of each campaign are forgotten. IMHO[/quote]




ok thats what I am interested in - how many people feel that the above is true


- I'll tell you now - in the rest of the UK people feel really indignant that Salmond/Swinny/Sturgeon are making this argument, they are seen as being being real 'politicians' and deflecting the real technical and political issue.

[j2 lot]

I think the debate is ' encouraging' and thriving on anti feelings in Scotland about the rest of the UK and in the rest of the UK towards Scotland
Jim, you are right 'we' did vote for the SNP and they did promise a referendum if they won but I think it has and will stir up the unsavoury elements in both factions and they won't simply stop shouting once the outcome of the referendum is known it is a lifelong campaign & the process has roused the natives. But you are right we got what we voted for.

[renmure]

- I'll tell you now - in the rest of the UK people feel really indignant that Salmond/Swinny/Sturgeon are making this argument, they are seen as being being real 'politicians' and deflecting the real technical and political issue.

What is "this" argument that you speak of?

In the event of a YES vote there will be a pragmatic political fudge from the Westminster parties (or the Europeans) and the Scottish Government to allow all the economic things which need to be fudged to be fudged. That's politics!!

But you are right we got what we voted for.

I didn't

[j2 lot]

Neither did I as it happens.

[pete]

Much longer post deleted.

My politics are somewhat dis-similar to renmure but I totally agree with his post.

The view of the Scotland debate in England is not as uniform as you make out King.

[KingK_series]

- I'll tell you now - in the rest of the UK people feel really indignant that Salmond/Swinny/Sturgeon are making this argument, they are seen as being being real 'politicians' and deflecting the real technical and political issue.

What is "this" argument that you speak of?

In the event of a YES vote there will be a pragmatic political fudge from the Westminster parties (or the Europeans) and the Scottish Government to allow all the economic things which need to be fudged to be fudged. That's politics!!


[(

I really do not think that will happen, any more than the UK will join the Euro - and for exactly the same reason, which is what Carney very deliberately and carefully spelt out in his technical speech.

I guarantee you - The rest of the UK absolutely would be absolutely furious if that happened, but the three main parties have made it 100% clear it will not happen - the question is do people actually belive that that is not true and that saying it is not true is bullying the Scottish vote?


I want to let this run because I really want to know what you all think rather than put "our" point of view - because we don't have a vote - but I'll tell you now there are a lot of people down south who are really upset that we don't have a vote concurrent with Scotland's.