Pothole damage claim

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MisterK
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Pothole damage claim

Post by MisterK » Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:45 pm

Has anyone successfully claimed against a council for damage caused by hitting a pothole (more of a crater in my case)? :oops:
I've taken plenty photos of the car killer I hit in the Dumfries area on Saturday, reported the pothole through the council website and got a case number.
I'm guessing it could be weeks/months before I get any response but believe I've got a strong case...
Any tips appreciated :thumbsup
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kerryxeg
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Re: Pothole damage claim

Post by kerryxeg » Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:51 pm

If it had already been reported then it should be an easier claim, that includes reporting from one of the councils own inspections. A friend used to deal with the Aberdeen claims, they had a system designed to put people off claiming i.e. lots of standard responses before they really take any action. So don't be put off easily, it could take a few exchanges.

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MisterK
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Re: Pothole damage claim

Post by MisterK » Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:34 pm

Thanks, I'll be persistent, nothing to lose and hopefully everything to gain?!


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tut
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Re: Pothole damage claim

Post by tut » Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:47 pm

I did twice successfully, but many years ago.

tut

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j2 lot
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Re: Pothole damage claim

Post by j2 lot » Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:16 am

I've had both successful and unsuccessful claims - it depends on if it's been reported already. So if they knew about it they'll pay out. If no one reported it an they have a robust inspection regime they'll reject your claim but will pay out for claims logged after you reported it !
They'll also want receipts for purchase of original tyres and for any repairs or purchase to do with the claim and will deduct for wear and tear. Take photos of damage too. Oh and it will probably take months. :roll:
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MisterK
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Re: Pothole damage claim

Post by MisterK » Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:46 am

Is there are logic to "if they knew about it"? I've done my duty and reported it as soon as I could, allowing them to sort it and reduce the risk of further claims. Is it that the crater could have appeared in a few hours giving them no time to address it, so they're not liable?


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Re: Pothole damage claim

Post by H8OAG » Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:55 pm

Hi


My claim for damage was refused three times...........I then went sh*t and sent a CEO escalation to P&K council's insurers which prompted an immediate response and subsequent payout



You need to do two things first:-

* Send a FOI request into your local council and ask for the following documents

Roads Inspection Manual

Reports on Inspections carried out between the dates of......on you specific piece of road



Here is a copy of the letter I sent to Zurich Insurance........(Perth and Kinross) which resulted in damages being paid out for two buckled wheels.

It is pretty lengthy .........and does provide some comedic value for bedtime readers

CLAIM REFERENCE xxxxxxxxxxx



Following on from my email dated 16/05/2016, I have received no update from yourself, or any evidence to support your stance that the council were not negligent.
(I have now copied in the UK CEO of Zurich to ensure that I am afforded the correct level of etiquette and a timely response to my correspondence)

I now have received the following documents after my FOI request to P&KC, and (again) respectfully asking you to reconsider your stance based on the following:-

P&KC Inspection Logs
P&KC Policy Document on Road Inspections


P&KC Inspection Logs

• My reported Incident of 28th (after which I received an Incident reference number) is not recorded on the inspection log.

• Two further reports citing potholes in the same location were closed off citing “ No Defect Found – No Further Action Taken”
o Instruction ref S1698828 reported on 02/02/16 states road is potholed in both directions of travel Greenloaning to Crieff
o Instruction ref S1698962 reported on 04/02/16 specifically cites the same pothole that I reported.

• P&KC Monthly Safety report on 09/02/16 incredulously states no defects recorded on A822 Greenloaning to Crieff.
o I would therefore ask you to explain why your client P&KC elected to close the A822 (with no defects recorded) ,for a period of two weeks ON 15/02/16 whilst they carried out extensive reactive repairs between Braco and Gleneagles junction?

In addition to the above?

I also note the following unusual statistics from the P&KC Inspection logs


• NO defects recorded on the A822 P&KC monthly safety inspections from March 2015 to February 2016
o Really! – Main trunk route south to A9 over the winter period has no visible defects
• There was a total of 39 reports of road defects by members of the public to P& KC contact centre
o Really! – A total of only 39 reports for the P&KC Jurisdiction for a period of 12 months
• Out of the alleged 39 reports – only one was deemed a defect.
o The remaining 38 were inspected and classed as “No Defect Found – No Further Action taken”
• Out of the alleged 39 reports – only 29 were completed within the stated completion date

P&KC Policy Document on Road Inspections

Para 1.3 states the following:-

Recording details of all inspections promptly, including ‘nil returns’, together with action taken, is essential as such information will be needed in the event of any legal action against the Council for alleged failure to maintain, and its completeness and accuracy will be crucial.

Para 3.1 states the following:-

Objectives of Safety Inspection

3.1 The objective of the safety inspection regime is to meet the legal obligations of the Council to assess the risk of injury or disruption to road users and the community and to seek to minimise these by:-

• Providing regular structured inspections of all parts of the network
• Delivering a consistent and reliable response to identified defects
• Maintaining accurate and comprehensive records of inspections and response
• Providing clear, accurate and comprehensive response to any claims from users or the community
• Monitoring performance in order to improve where necessary

Para 6 states the following:-

Safety Inspection Regime

6.1 Safety inspections are designed to identify all defects likely to create danger or serious inconvenience to users of the network or the wider community. Such defects should include those that will require urgent attention as well as those where the locations and sizes of defects and the consequent risks are such that longer periods of response would be acceptable. They are not however intended to identify defects with mainly ‘nuisance value’, where there is little risk of injury or serious inconvenience, for example in the case of stones placed on verges by residents to deter parking.

6.2 Inspectors should bear in mind the potential risks of defects to all road users, including cyclists, pedestrians and disabled people, on all parts of the network, whether or not it is specifically designated for their use.

6.3 Additional inspections may be necessary in response to user or community concern, as a result of incidents or extreme weather conditions, or in the light of other information suggesting that problems may be occurring.

6.4 The issues involved in safety inspection are as follows and are dealt with in detail in the following sections:-

• Network hierarchy and frequency of inspection
• Inspection procedure
• Safe working arrangements
• Items for inspection
• Degree of deficiency
• Categories and nature of response
• Recording and ordering works
• Works completion and confirmation
• Monitoring and review


Para 12.2.2. states the following:-

Defects presenting an urgent or imminent hazard or risk of rapid structural deterioration. Make safe or repair within 24 hrs. This will be interpreted as the end of the following working day for all notifications. Such defects will include:-

• Rapid deterioration in unstable wires, trees and structures
• Seriously damaged or defective traffic signals
• Missing, dirty or obscured Stop or Give Way signs
• Missing, dirty or obscured Stop and Give Way markings
• Missing, dirty obscured or ‘red light out’ traffic signals
• Missing or seriously defective ironwork
• Missing or seriously damaged safety or pedestrian fencing
• Pothole, trench or other abrupt carriageway level difference exceeding 40 mm in all road categories of a size and location likely to cause loss of control
• Ironwork – covers, gratings, frames and boxes located in cycle routes or footways more than 20mm lower than the surrounding surface.
• Edge deterioration with abrupt level difference at carriageway edge exceeding 100mm in all road categories of a size and location likely to cause loss of control
• Pothole, trench or other abrupt level difference exceeding 20 mm in cycle route categories A and B of a size and location likely to cause injury to users
• Trip or other abrupt level difference in footway or kerb exceeding 20 mm in all footway categories, of a size and location likely to cause injury to users, but excluding such level differences between adjoining kerbs.
• Gap wider and deeper than 15 mm in all footway categories of a size and location likely to cause injury to users

3 Defects presenting a moderate level of hazard or risk of structural deterioration. Repair within 7 days. Such defects will include:-

• Missing, dirty or obscured warning signs
• Isolated standing water
• Pothole, trench or other abrupt carriageway level difference exceeding 40 mm in all road categories in any location
• Ironwork – covers, gratings, frames and boxes more than 20mm lower than the surrounding carriageway.
• Edge deterioration with abrupt level difference at carriageway edge exceeding 100mm in all road categories in any location
• Pothole, trench or other abrupt level difference exceeding 20 mm in cycle route categories A and B in any location
• Trip or other abrupt level difference in footway or kerb exceeding 20 mm in all footway categories in any location, but excluding such level differences between adjoining kerbs.
• Gap wider and deeper than 15 mm in all footway categories in any location

In summary, after studying the inspection report, P&KC are in clear breach of their own policy document and not consistent with the guidance contained in “Well-maintained Highways the Code of Practice for Highway Maintenance Management 2005”, adopted by Perth and Kinross Council.


Yours




Good Luck

:cheers
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MisterK
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Re: Pothole damage claim

Post by MisterK » Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:14 pm

Thanks, really useful and I will raise that FOI. If D&G council have similar regimes then they should have rectified the issue within 7 days of inspection so I'll be looking for recent inspection records covering the road. I may even take a trip back down there to check in a few days but will FOI first. Strange coincidence that you're incident mentioned my home village of Braco,it even got on the BBC Scotland weather map the other week!


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Re: Pothole damage claim

Post by campbell » Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:44 am

Thorough!

You may find your council tax increases shortly...
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Re: Pothole damage claim

Post by GraemeLotus » Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:43 am

campbell wrote:Thorough!

You may find your council tax increases shortly...
I bet Boag's did :lol:
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Re: Pothole damage claim

Post by H8OAG » Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:00 am

Your home town of Braco's high St has been closed for the last three days.......diversion via Gleneagles........whilst the f*kwits at P&K rush to spend the remainder of their road's budget before fiscal year end.
(High quality patching from the Roman camp to Braco cemetery)

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Re: Pothole damage claim

Post by Doc883 » Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:06 am

Find a road that has previously been reported for serious defects then claim against that 8) Other advice also available

In all seriousness I'm a keen cyclist so have to suffer the tragic state of Scottish roads on a weekly basis.
We have a section between East Calder and Ratho which is by far the worst section of road I have cycled in West Lothian.
A fellow cyclist lives on this road and reports it to the Council on a monthly basis, has done for years, with no action taken to resolve.
The road is a great rat run for cars into Edinburgh so I believe this is a ploy by West Lothian Council not to repair it to limit it's attractiveness.
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Re: Pothole damage claim

Post by Corranga » Thu Jan 26, 2017 12:33 pm

A colleague of mine put in a claim against Fife council with photos etc of the pothole, and they refused to pay. They said that because it had already been reported, and was indicated (by a dirty cone in the long grass right next to it...) that they were not at fault.

She didn't go to the lengths of Mr. Boag above though, so I'll be remembering this thread for future reference!
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Re: Pothole damage claim

Post by Doc883 » Thu Jan 26, 2017 12:43 pm

Corranga wrote:A colleague of mine put in a claim against Fife council with photos etc of the pothole, and they refused to pay. They said that because it had already been reported, and was indicated (by a dirty cone in the long grass right next to it...) that they were not at fault.
She didn't go to the lengths of Mr. Boag above though, so I'll be remembering this thread for future reference!
My understanding is that once reported and acknowledged they have 7 days to rectify? If I were him I'd pursue.
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Re: Pothole damage claim

Post by DJ » Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:38 pm

A few years ago I burst a spring from clattering through a pothole. I contacted East Lothian Council who sent out a form. When it arrived it was several pages and had a lot of stuff about how I could prove it was caused by the pothole, value of item less depreciation, copy of receipts, MOT evidence etc etc. Basically they won. Intentionally awkward and cumbersome form and I just couldn't be ar$ed with it all.
Maybe its an age thing now, but I find myself increasingly taking this kind of approach. Life's too short to waste time getting all worked up and spending months writing lengthy complaining letters, etc. :protest
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