SE on WhatsApp

[mckeann]

Dom, no such thing as a SE WhatsApp group. There are 3 groups I'm a part of that have members who happen to be members on here. One was a biker group that's turned into a group full of cnut. One is full of alcoholics. The only one which could really be portrayed as anything to do with SE was the one set up to plan a secret meet for Tut. Couldn't exactly use the forum for that, could they.

I don't think there's any underhand plan to chat about lotuses and avoid using the forum. Very very little chat is in fact lotus related, so it's not like the forum is missing lotus chat because it's being discussed elsewhere.


Also, didn't you ask to join the biker WhatsApp group, despite not being interested in bikes, and then leave because you didn't like the language (because we're all cnut)?

[duggiesmith]

everybody on it is a c*nt expect Campbell, and anything goes including language and sexual preferences from the usual suspects...

.. but not sure it is for you.

Sounds just right for Dom

[campbell]

The forum when accessed via Tapatalk on mobiles is a very good approximation of all the features the average modern internet user has come to expect.

However. It IS moderated - it has to be for legal reasons, as I understand it - so it's certainly not "anything goes". Albeit there are options to restrict sub-forums to members-only, much like a WhatsApp Group, although the risk of defamation proceedings etc still remains.

The "anything goes" nature of WhatsApp (and other IM platforms) is perhaps attractive to some. Not me, as it happens. But in that case, they can seek an outlet as they see fit.

Ironically, WhatsApp feels incredibly close in (its limited) functionality to the original platform for SE in early 1999 - "Onelist", a free mailing list-server which was soon bought by Yahoo and became YahooGroups. They implemented some primitive forum-esque features but we rolled with it as essentially a mailing list until the futurists established this present "bulletin board" privately hosted platform around 2005. That in itself split opinion for a while, but most eventually embraced the forum platform for lots of sensible reasons. Even me. I was one of the last to cave in

I personally think a forum platform is still relevant, with the way it subdivides areas of interests, lets users choose what to be involved in, what to follow, etc. In many ways things like Slack are just emulating it (I think?). If SE moved to Slack, would it change anything? My hunch is not.

But. As with the move from YahooGroups to this forum platform...I'm ready to be proved wrong

One thing to bear in mind. Whilst many things about SE and its culture have remained constant in nearly 19 years, yes 19, count them, one key thing is different today. It's a VERY established community now, with many strong connections between members which have developed well beyond forum "friending". Many of these relationships simply don't need "a platform" any more. And yet there are still lots of newcomers to the Lotus fraternity who absolutely can benefit from joining. Or FROM whom existing members can also gain benefit as acquaintances, friends or even business connections.

I don't know how you would square that circle though. Interested and entertained to watch...!

[Lazydonkey]

A forum doesn't die by itself.

A forum dies when people stop creating content and stop engaging with content others have created.

If this place is quiet then we've all got a part to play in that. If we wanted we could all make it busy again. Seloc still seems to be busy but I know other forums I've been part of have struggled. I contribute to the evora fb page but it's not a very good forum and you can't search.

The controversial bit..... Ive met some of my best pals via SE. I talk to some of those pals using WA. That doesn't make it an SE chat and I doesn't meant I have to invite SE people I don't know into it. I don't think those people would really care about the cycling helmet I've just bought anyway. (it is nice tho)

If whatsapp is the future for SE then I'm happy if someone wants to create a group for it. I don't think it will work for all the reasons stated above but knock yourself out.

[mxvx]

Well, I had not thought of searching for an Evora facebook group, I have sent a request to join on (currently 910 members) - there are two groups (the other has 300)

Stewart

[ed]

As others have said we all need to take responsibility for how quiet this place is. The time of the year doesn't help but as an example my recent happy new year post got two responses.

IMHO WhatsApp is not the answer, not sure another medium is either tbh.

[Dominic]

There is a lot of positive comment above. Hoping we can have a healthy discussion and maybe come up with something to take things forward. Yes, BigD, it has been discussed in years gone-by, but is there any harm in discussing again? This place is dying off, so lets try something. My original point really was that this forum still seems to be attracting quite a few new members, but they are disconnected from the other groups (WA). I know plenty will deny that there is a SE WhatsApp, but the comments of a few users seem to suggest that there is a lot of SE folk chatting in WA and not a lot on here. Doesn't matter what the group is called or what it's origins were, fact is that there are typically a couple of posts on here each day, and as Tut says, while out for a coffee, he missed 261 posts on WA. I get it that the WA groups are maybe spin offs around a certain shared interest (bikes/whiskey chat), but that is what general chat on SE used to contain. I don't get the convenience of FB/WA argument - are people not able to use internet browsers on their smart phones? - maybe not. People have moved on I guess. As others have said, there are a lot of good friendships built through this forum, but plenty more still to be made - how can we keep that going?

Is there any possibilities with this "Slack" that Rawsco speaks off? Shug was saying that the online world has changed considerably in the past 10 years - totally agree! From the various comments above, it seems that for the SE community, WA, FB or the forum all have their drawbacks, and maybe none are really suited to our needs. So, maybe, as a group, is it time to re-assess what we want - and look for something that fits that? Currently we seem to have a lightly used forum, from which, if invited, you can move onto a busy WA group. So, is there a fix? - do folk think things could be better? - or do we just accept the decline of this place, accept the friendships that have been formed and leave it at that? Where does that leave newbies on here? Answers on a postcard... or forum, or whatever )

[mckeann]

I think inviting a new user on SE to a WhatsApp group that isn't anything to do with lotus other than the majority of the people in there own or used to own one is a terrible idea.

It would be like me inviting you to my work WhatsApp group. 12 people you don't know, with no shared interests, and most importantly, you would miss out on the 12 hours of work banter, so the messages on WhatsApp would make zero sense.

Much like the motorbike group on WhatsApp. If a new SE user (or you, when you tried it) came along, as they hadn't been on the motorbike run last Saturday, the WhatsApp banter would make no sense.

[BigD]

I get your point Dom but the only way to get SE busy is to post (and engage with) content.

Me and you have conversed using many methods, WhatsApp, facebook (through my pseudonym), telephone and email, that doesn’t mean that because of those offline conversations SE is worse for it or does it?

We’ve used WA groups for track trips like frolics to keep in touch and see where others are by sending your location etc, it’s very useful as an instant message to others on the trip. You just couldn’t do that on the forum and none of it is forum content.
WA is definitely more convenient than a web browser (even on your phone) it’s simple, you type in a box and hit send. Compared to opening a web page, finding your favourites and directing to that, then finding the sub forum scrolling to the end etc etc. I agree with Campbell that tapatalk is much easier to use and that’s how I check in on the forum still mostly on a daily basis.
I was never a big poster on SE anyway being mostly active in the meets/trackdays which are still organised there and we all still manage to get to events and have the usual fun on track and off. The Glasgow curry night was quite well attended too. It’s not changed and as mxvx (Stewart) has mentioned, just as welcoming and inclusive as it always was.

[rossybee]

100% with you Dom and all your comments and opinions (maybe cos we're getting old our views are outdated? )

Campbell, Donkey, and Ed's posts are very valid too.

WhatsApp does indeed have its uses, I'm on a few groups (various work projects, friends, but the biggest is a general car chat group with 9 guys), and like tut stated, if you're not with your phone during a busy period you can be 100s of messages behind which just doesn't seem fun.

For me, WA is sharing daft pics and videos, and general chit chat. The platform doesn't work for big numbers (shudder to think what a 200+ group would be like) and the big point here (as has been mentioned in the past) is WA doesn't work for new members. As it stands, any newbie will come here and think "not worth the effort" and not return. Has to be a contributing factor to the massive reduction in posts.

Back in the day I was in an email group called Cam7 which was similar to the old yahoo SE and was truly horrid, as you'd check emails and have 500 just full of nonsense. I had to duck out.

[Corranga]

For a long time it been more about the cliques and not the community, WA and associated cliques will kill SE to death eventually.

Nice one for trying though Dom, I know this place still means a lot, you even got me to reply.

SE has always (imo) had it's cliques. As welcoming as this place is, like other forums, there are long term members that know one another IRL, have been around for ages, or who live local, or click with other members, and become friends outside of the site. They stay in contact in other ways, and a lot of what might be said on a forum is restricted to personal conversations or other mediums where they keep in touch.

I've been around since 2007, but have never really felt like a proper member of SE. A lot of that is down to my own misfortune, being a bit of a social misfit / not having the social skills that others possess, and perhaps being in the wrong part of Scotland, but it's never really bothered me.
I've enjoyed the few SE events I've attended over the years.

The decline of this place, from an 'outside' perspective, is simply about these cliques breaking off, and setting up their own groups, be it FB, WA, or whatever. As the main posting base have moved on, the number of posts here reduce, and people like me, who contribute less come along less frequently as there isn't much going on.

Combine this with perhaps a drop in new users, and some older users leaving because, despite the "you don't have to be Scottish or have an Elise" tag line, these things will always be int he back of your mind - though, more generic car forums, like TartanTarmac are hardly what I'd call busy either, so perhaps it's just that people don't like this format nowadays.

I think inviting a new user on SE to a WhatsApp group that isn't anything to do with lotus other than the majority of the people in there own or used to own one is a terrible idea.

It would be like me inviting you to my work WhatsApp group. 12 people you don't know, with no shared interests, and most importantly, you would miss out on the 12 hours of work banter, so the messages on WhatsApp would make zero sense.

Much like the motorbike group on WhatsApp. If a new SE user (or you, when you tried it) came along, as they hadn't been on the motorbike run last Saturday, the WhatsApp banter would make no sense.

..and that's exactly it. I remember when the SE Bikers clique appeared. It was something I was a little interested in, as I was learning to ride around that time, but it became something else and split off from SE.
The situation then is that bikes aren't really discussed on SE, and when something does come up, the thread is naturally seen by SE bikers members since the members are largely shared, and posts appear referring to things that happened at SE bikers meets etc. Those threads don't welcome me, and I guess alienated new users because naturally the in jokes spread across to this board, and some of the banter inevitably appears, and those who aren't included in the other groups just become confused, and likely ignore them. Posts suffer, and bikes just don't get discussed (for example!)

It's nobodies fault, I think it's just the nature of having an internet board where people are so closely located, which inevitably leads to them becoming friends and getting together IRL.

Similar can be said about runs / event organising. I believe some unfortunate happenings on SE runs that I didn't attend lead to SE becoming less of a place for organising things, and groups of SE members getting together off forum instead.

What am I trying to say, and what is the solution? I don't really know.

I always think that forums will die off, especially smaller ones, and once they are gone, people will realise the wealth of knowledge and history has been lost. FB / WA etc. don't replace them, but most people (I'm not one of them) seem to prefer the instant communication, and are happy to forget about something that happened a week ago.

It's sad, but the reality is that forums can't exist without posts, and if many of the users are communicating through other methods, the requirement to them for a post is less. Places like SELOC are big enough to live on, but we all know there are cliques there too.

Chris

[mckeann]

..and that's exactly it. I remember when the SE Bikers clique appeared. It was something I was a little interested in, as I was learning to ride around that time, but it became something else and split off from SE.

Chris

I can't find the posts to prove this, but if I remember correctly, some people were annoyed that a group of people were using the forum to discuss bike runs, so the sebikers forum was set up to avoid annoying people who thought this forum should be for lotus only. I'm not saying we were driven away, but obviously not everyone was interested in it, so rather than annoy people, we left. We still posted lotus things in here though.

The sebiker forum then died and was replaced with a WhatsApp group chat which works as there's not a huge number of people involved in it.

[Peter]

I think there is another issue, when SE was in its heyday, we regularly met and interacted in person and I think this was key to the success of SE.
Many of those break away groups revolve round people who have some form of physical interaction (breakfast meets, whisky nights etc) the whole ‘SE WhatsApp’ Thread evolved from dragging some old fart out for a night out in Aviemore and just seems to have continued as a general banter group since.
I don’t come here very often, usually when someone from a WA group mentions something of interest. The truth is, I don’t know a lot of the people on here and we’ve lost some key people.
I’d suggest the key may be some more social events but many of the older members here don’t have the one thing that brought us together the first place - a Lotus. That’s what we had in common.






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mikie711]

Everyone keeps referring to the SE WA group so just for clarity here is how it came about. As other have said it started when a surprise dinner was planned for tut, there was a reason for the timing but not really relevant now.
Now the original plan was to have a run then dinner, an over night at the hotel with about a dozen or so friends on a weekend. Originally we were using messenger until I set up a WhatsApp group to make it easier. It then kinda exploded as more and more people were invited to the group to the point that it looked like there would be problems accommodating that many people in one hotel. At that point the numbers were capped and the weekend went ahead as planned.
Inevitably some people got missed or rather, weren't invited in time before the cap was imposed. We even forgot to invite Verian for crying out load, so if anyone felt excluded believe me that was not the intention and was more by happenstance than design.
After the weekend the WA group just carried on as general banter and has little content that would have appeared on the forum.

A SE forum goes, the demise start long before WhatsApp. We used to organise runs on a regular basis but as the groups got larger problems with driver etiquette started creeping in. This lead to some runs being invite only, outside of the forum. Curry nights suffered for dwindling numbers and lack of organisers, which is a shame as generally there good chance to catch up with friends that you might not see very often.
That together with there not being the same amount of actual lotus owners on here have all contributed to the reduction in activity IMHO.

I do still frequent this place on a regular basis but the list of unread posts is very short these days. It is one of the best forums I have ever come across and have met some great people through it and deserves the continued support from all of us if only to give back what we got from it.

[BigD]

and deserves the continued support from all of us if only to give back what we got from it.

That is a very good point.