$1.9 bn or £1.5 bn (Geely investment plans btw)

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j2 lot
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Re: $1.9 bn or £1.5 bn (Geely investment plans btw)

Post by j2 lot » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:01 pm

:shock: :thumbsup
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Re: $1.9 bn or £1.5 bn (Geely investment plans btw)

Post by ScottJ-PS » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:20 pm

Sounds good but if we get rebadged Volvo SUVs and a new Elise that is 500 kgs heavier with all mod cons to compete with a Porky Coxster then it aint the Lotus we know and love .

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Re: $1.9 bn or £1.5 bn (Geely investment plans btw)

Post by scott_e » Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:03 am

ScottJ-PS wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:20 pm
a new Elise that is 500 kgs heavier with all mod cons to compete with a Porky Coxster then it aint the Lotus we know and love .
That would be terrible but I really cant see it happening. The lightweight ethos is so ingrained in the company any increase in weight will be for legislative reasons surely?

Competing with high end marques presumably means quality improvements with probably means even higher costs for new models. My dream of owning a new 2020 Elise maybe just that.

I take the articles as good news though.

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Re: $1.9 bn or £1.5 bn (Geely investment plans btw)

Post by Corranga » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:26 am

They don't exactly make lightweight cars nowadays anyway. Wikipedia has the S3 Elise listed with a kerb weight of 915kg. Citroen managed to make a 5 seat compact SUV that weighs in at only 50kg more than that.

I suspect we'll see them continue the move up market. It seems to work for McLaren, Noble, Pagani, etc why wouldn't it work for Lotus?
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Re: $1.9 bn or £1.5 bn (Geely investment plans btw)

Post by rawsco » Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:02 pm

Corranga wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:26 am
They don't exactly make lightweight cars nowadays
I’ve often wondered this... we had an Audi A1 and it was surprising how much smaller my S2 Exige was, they really are tiny cars.. the Audi A1 is listed as 1040kg - 1175kg according to t’internet. The S2 was 930kg(ish) but I had touring pack and aircon probably good for another 20plus kilos.

Even the V6 is tiny in comparison to everyday cars nowadays. But I do think they’ve done a pretty good job there jamming a fairly large capacity v6 and supercharger in. But by modern engineering standards probably not that impressive.

They do however know how to make them drive, and that’s what matters to me...
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Re: $1.9 bn or £1.5 bn (Geely investment plans btw)

Post by ScottJ-PS » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:42 am

I had a Fiat Uno Turbo in 1988. It felt mega rapid at the time on a young mans budget. Looking at stats, 750 kgs, and 130bhp. Lighter than my Elise and with more power. I lived in london at the time, no wonder could lap M25 at 100mph LOL . Just shows how lardy all modern cars are when Lotus boasting that current Elises are sub 900kgs.

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Re: $1.9 bn or £1.5 bn (Geely investment plans btw)

Post by campbell » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:53 am

What else is 900 kg these days though. Apart from Se7ens?
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Re: $1.9 bn or £1.5 bn (Geely investment plans btw)

Post by rawsco » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:45 am

campbell wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:53 am
What else is 900 kg these days though. Apart from Se7ens?
My point was that, if you shrink modern cars to the size of an Elise then attaining that mass target isn’t that much of an engineering challenge nowadays.

The A1 above had loads of kit, didn’t rattle, drove and rode well had big squishy comfy seats, rear ones too a steel body shell and panels (I think) and a lot more glass and is almost 30cm longer and 30cm taller than an Elise.

It’s about the same size and weight as a V6 at the top of the A1 mass range, considerably lighter at the bottom where spec would be more comparable.

Mainstream manufacturers are definately prioritising mass as it directly correlates to fuel efficiency which sells cars. Marketing pumps this benefit as an engine benefit so it’s not obvious they are chasing weight savings but they are.
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Re: $1.9 bn or £1.5 bn (Geely investment plans btw)

Post by BiggestNizzy » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:46 am

Going up market is difficult and dangerous I understand why manufacturers want to do it as the margins are healthier. (I read somewhere that Ferrari make £62k a car) How do you use the Lotus brand to pitch yourself against another more established brand? Who are they going after and does the brand have tge clout to be able to pull it off. This is before you build a car. As I see it Lotus are known for innovation, driving dynamics and less than ideal build quality. The later might not be true anymore but they have traditionally been purchased by people who gain pleasure from driving. The same view is held by the man in the street who looks at a Lotus and it's owner as someone who knows what they want and knows what they are doing, (anyone who has been behind me on a road run will know this is clearly not the case) and are willing to put up with the quirks as it's worth it for the pure pleasure.
Are they going to pitch themselves against Porsche? They have been tweaking the same design since the war and have a solid product range it's the sensible choice your not going to persuade many owners to swop their base model for a new Lotus as they all think they are driving GT3's and the people they are trying to impress don't know the difference.
Or to you go full Hypercar again a hard sell as 90% of those cars sit in a garage 90% of time only to be spotted driving 10mph so everyone can see the driver.

Hard sell.

For me it should start off with something in the £35-45k bracket and pitch against your mainstream manufacturers, this will mean ditching the fibre glass and having an Audi level interior. (not easy) then a follow up with a halo car in tge £150-£200k bracket.
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Re: $1.9 bn or £1.5 bn (Geely investment plans btw)

Post by IanD » Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:52 pm

The new Alpine A110 is the interesting one. Being pitched as lightness principles, 1103kg £46k+ so closer to an Elise competitor and more driving focused than competitors.

Reviews talked about lightness very little mention of Lotus (thought there would be some references) and any comparisons/ back to back drives were to TT and Boxsters.

Willing be interesting to see one, and we know a man who will have one as long as it is not punted on straight away. :wink:
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Re: $1.9 bn or £1.5 bn (Geely investment plans btw)

Post by Sanjøy » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:54 pm

campbell wrote:What else is 900 kg these days though. Apart from Se7ens?
Power is so easily available in crated engines not need for super light.
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