Vehicle Tracking / Road Pricing

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gorrie
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Post by gorrie » Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:42 pm

FWIW, I'm with RichardHumble... If all they really want to achieve is to tax the people who use the roads more, then scrapping this road tax banding and putting (more) tax on fuel is the sensible thing to do. (why use a costly tracker system if there isn't another underhand reason)

Someone in a 1.2 punto will pay less tax than I do in my 2.5 KV6 MG, and yet I will pay more (nearly double) for road tax despite the fact I work from home, so my mileage has dropped to about 8K p/a. The punto driver on the other hand probably uses it to commute in to town every day doing double my miles.

Taxing at the pump will mean the people using the roads more pay more. And if someone gets less mpg because they've got a Disco then at least that was their decision.

I can't see the merit of the tracker system if their intentions are genuine, and can't see it being cost effective unless they plan to claw back the expense by overcharging and penalties.

I've signed the petition...

Andy.

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Rag_It
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Post by Rag_It » Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:40 pm

robin wrote:Electric or hybrid cars with or without fuel cells will not fix the basic problem of too many people travelling too many pointless journeys. Until the UK realises that most employees don't actually need to go to work in order to work and most kids can probably get to school without being driven there, we're just wasting our time - we may as well let personal preference and market forces dictate who uses what form of transport and when - it has the advantage of being efficient and any money invested (or wasted) is private money.

Cheers,
Robin
Hear hear, my point exactly! Get that man a token position as an MSP! :wink:

Dave

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Rich H
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Post by Rich H » Fri Jan 12, 2007 9:17 am

robin, can you please write to my future employer about home working, I'm only answering the phone FFS and typing the info into a computer. Nowadays you can even do that on the train (If you can afford the ticket!)
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campbell
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Post by campbell » Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:16 pm

I've read the background and the petition stuff in a bit more detail following this from my Dad, and have just signed up to the petition.

----------

Everyone should know about this. Whether you wish to sign the petition is up to your own conscience.

I will leave it with you: -



I don't normally send these things on to people, but this might affect you financially.

Have a read of this and consider the implications on the use of fuel and car tax.....


Sarah Kennedy (BBC Radio 2) was on about this proposed car tax scheme on the radio, there is only one month left to register your objection to the 'Pay as you go' road tax.

The petition is on the 10 Downing St website but they didn't tell anybody about it. Therefore at the time of Sarah's comments only 250,000 people had signed it so far and 750,000 signatures are required to stop them introducing it.

The government's proposal to introduce road pricing will mean you having to purchase a tracking device for your car and paying a monthly bill to use it. The tracking device will cost about £200 and in a recent study by the BBC, the lowest monthly bill was £28 for a rural florist and £194 for a delivery driver. A non working mother who used the car to take the kids to school paid £86 in one month.

On top of this massive increase in tax, you will be tracked. Somebody will know where you are at all times. They will also know how fast you have been going, so even if you accidentally creep over a speed limit in time you can probably expect a Notice of Intended Prosecution with your monthly bill.

If you care about our freedom and stopping the constant bashing of the car driver, please sign the petition on No 10's new website (link below) and pass this on to as many people as possible.

Once you've given your details (you don't have to give your full address, just house number and postcode will do), they will send you an email with a link in it. Once you click on that link, you'll have signed the petition.

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/

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robin
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Post by robin » Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:41 pm

I'll just be leaving my tracker at home, or better yet I'll be using a hacked one that makes the road side monitoring system think I am properly tracked, but sends the bills to someone else, e.g. Mr Blair ;-).

In my experience of government IT initiatives we have nothing much to fear except a total waste of public funds, but hey, if you're lucky, they might spend them with your employer and you'll get big bonuses.

Cheers,
Robin
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campbell
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Post by campbell » Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:06 pm

In my experience of government IT initiatives we have nothing much to fear except a total waste of public funds, but hey, if you're lucky, they might spend them with your employer and you'll get big bonuses.
Yeah well last time we bid for one of their scams they awarded it to some other bunch so I won't be holding my breath!

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james
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Post by james » Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:35 pm

Signed up yesterday to the objection.

I drive too much for this to be a good idea for me. Next it will be speeding tickets when on the A roads at 65mph on a sunny day early in the morning as the GPS speeding detection would be automatic.

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simon
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Post by simon » Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:01 pm

robin wrote:if you're lucky, they might spend them with your employer and you'll get big bonuses.
I wish!!

/working on the massive NHS IT project faction :(

pete
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Post by pete » Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:03 pm

This may sound on the surface to be a good solution but ignores several basic/obvious problems. The technology won't work. It will be hacked. The costs involved in collecting will be immense. The size of the IT budget alone to set it up will be astronomical. IT WON'T WORK. (If it is such a great idea let another country do it first).

Just abolish road tax and add it to fuel. No extra admin. No (extra) collection problems. In fact reduced admin (the DVLA must spend a fortune pursuing offenders and collecting revenue for no reason) and thus extra cash. Will force folk to buy more economical cars, and let those who use gas guzzlers do so with a clear concience.
But they can't can they? The Mail would go nuts, petrol prices would go up, folk would demonstrate, lorry drivers wold get upset as they would be forced to pay something close to the actual cost of their use of the roads (road transport is very heavily subsidised sompared to rail). Folk would call it a stealth tax. It's not, everyone knows you pay road tax so how is it a stealth tax, but the stupid unwashed would object.

So instead the govt looks to technology for a solution - but how do you think Mr BAs conslutation went...

Dear (Big IT company, will already have a history of huge over runs on government projects),
Do you think a complicated IT solution exists to combat road congestion?

Dear Mr BA,
Yes. How much will we get paid?


The whole thing is utter nonsense. (But added bonus that the security services will have data to track the movement of everyone. Paranoid? Perhaps but I'm glad I'm not a Muslim at the moment).

Please note I have managed to combine several rants in that one post, I may need to go and have a bit of a lie down.
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Skyenet
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Post by Skyenet » Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:40 pm

RICHARDHUMBLE wrote: YOYOY not just scrap road tax altogether and bump up the tax on petrol? More miles or greedyer car=more tax. Small car or few miles=little tax. Or am I missing the point.... :roll:
It appears its the Government that is missing the point. The system is already in place and working to collect fuel tax so WOULD NOT COST anything to implement and would SAVE a fortune in by scrapping Road tax and all the costs associated with running it. Tax of Fuel would be fairer as well as them more you used the roads, the more you pay.

I used to hear that Road Tax had the benefit of making sure people had valid MOTs and Insurance but with MOTs and Insurance well on the move to computerisation and integration with DVLA then that is not a case for keeping Road Tax. Police Cars are already fitted with systems to constantly monitor number plates and alert the Police Officers that a vehicle without a valid MOT or insurance has been picked up.

Plus my experience of Government IT projects is that they waste TAXPAYERS Money through loads of ways and am sure this Tracking system would be no exception.

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PhilA
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Post by PhilA » Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:22 pm

nice site that journey planner!
would take me 1hr 37 mins to get to work on public transport.

Currently takes me 25 mins by car for the 18 mile journey!
Phil

Ford Focus Sport

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H8OAG
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Post by H8OAG » Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:40 am

Good lively debate..........

You are all currently being tracked by the fact that most of you carry a mobile phone in your pocket!
Current Network Manager software tracks your movements by polling continuously to your mobile phone and logs the nearest cellular site to your handset and any cellular handover when you are on the move!
In rural regions we can detect your whereabouts down to six miles whereas in the city..........200 yds
The latest O2 handsets such as the XDA ORBIT have built in GPS which can detect your whereabouts down to 4 metres!!
Less scrupulous individuals have set up web based tracking services and a disgruntled spouse can register her husband's phone to verify whether he really is attending a suppliers conference in Manchester or holed up with his secretary in a Travelodge on the M74

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Rich H
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Post by Rich H » Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:20 am

I'm going to switch my phone off more often then :lol:
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james
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Post by james » Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:22 am

IAINBOAG wrote: In rural regions we can detect your whereabouts down to six miles whereas in the city..........200 yds
Actually according to a well known emergency service call centre manager, cell phones can be triangulatetd in rural areas to less than a mile. 8)

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H8OAG
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Post by H8OAG » Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:35 am

Actually according to a well known emergency service call centre manager, cell phones can be triangulatetd in rural areas to less than a mile.
Unlikely most rural areas have a less masts and higher radiated power giving coverage of up 22 miles radius depending on topography
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