Vehicle Tracking / Road Pricing

Anything goes in here.....
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Rich H
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Post by Rich H » Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:42 am

A mile circle is sill alot of hill though.... :shock:
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Tom
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Post by Tom » Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:13 pm

mobile phone chucked out of window.......(i wish)

but seriously, people talking about not wanting a big brother state and it looks like we've already got one.

say for example you had a yellow car with a silly jap engine in it, and you attempted to do dover to edinburgh at vmax. an unscrupulous person could tell by your mobile that you'd broken one or two bylaws etc.....

paranoid faction :oops: :shock:
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campbell
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Post by campbell » Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:14 pm

Actually knew about the phone positioning / tracking principles, as a lot of "walk by marketing" by SMS was discussed in the past but don't know if it ever actually got off the ground?

I have used a Vodafone directions service to offer walking directions from where you currently are in a city...very clever.

At least in the case of the phone, you have the personal choice whether to leave switched on or not on a journey. A tracking unit in the car would be a different proposition, although as Robin indicated, it could be foxed ;-)

Campbell

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gorrie
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Post by gorrie » Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:13 am

Well... I've just read the email letter from the PM this morning. Underlying message seems to be "Thanks for your signature... we will continue to look in to Tracking/Pricing anyway".

The whole letter, the costs and examples are based for England. So, eh.. M25/M1/M62, I'm never anywhere near those roads... so why have a National Tracking/Pricing system. Make them toll roads if need be.

I've got no issue with a 'fair' pricing scheme for congested roads, generally speaking.. but have no faith in this Government to implement that.
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delands
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Post by delands » Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:40 am

You question the Transport Minister live on Thursday at 1600.

http://www.pm.gov.uk/output/Page11046.asp
DEL

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The_Rossatron
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Post by The_Rossatron » Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:03 am

Tom wrote: say for example you had a yellow car with a silly jap engine in it, and you attempted to do dover to edinburgh at vmax. an unscrupulous person could tell by your mobile that you'd broken one or two bylaws etc.....

paranoid faction :oops: :shock:
Just turn your phone off next time you try this Tom :thumbsup
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greyrigg
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Post by greyrigg » Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:26 am

I have used the o2 location thingy and it seems pretty accurate, except when I am at home........i.e. the middle of nowhere.

As usual with all government bs this is about tax raising, empire building and bugger all to do with congestion. If enough people get hacked off with congestion they will seek alternatives anyway. It is just at the moment there is no real alternative. If you stay north of watford trains are largely irrelevant (sorry mac!), tarring over the lines would have more benefit.

Does anyone believe they would hypothicate the tax raised...no way, it would be used for ever more generous pensions for themselves and fireworks to lob at some poor sod who doesn't dance to their tune.

Glad I have got that off my chest :x

Malcolm

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k12chu
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Post by k12chu » Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:13 am

now most of us use/have used GPS navigation. havent u guys noticed the signal is lost every time u go under a bridge or into a tunnel? these recievers need direct signal from satellites. (a car with a tracker can be stolen by carting it from site in a metal container!! :shock: ) the better of the signals that can be used are wave (radio). it works better, but again not fool proof. they dont work in basements and lifts. which means... someone will definitely find a signal weakening device for all these GPS tracker for the cars. :twisted:
necessity... the mother of all inventions...

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mac
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Post by mac » Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:19 am

lead cars :D


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Skyenet
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Post by Skyenet » Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:14 pm

The e-petition asking the Prime Minister to "Scrap the planned vehicle tracking and road pricing policy" has now closed. This is a response from the Prime Minister, Tony Blair.

Thank you for taking the time to register your views about road pricing on the Downing Street website.

This petition was posted shortly before we published the Eddington Study, an independent review of Britain's transport network. This study set out long-term challenges and options for our transport network.

It made clear that congestion is a major problem to which there is no easy answer. One aspect of the study was highlighting how road pricing could provide a solution to these problems and that advances in technology put these plans within our reach. Of course it would be ten years or more before any national scheme was technologically, never mind politically, feasible.

That is the backdrop to this issue. As my response makes clear, this is not about imposing "stealth taxes" or introducing "Big Brother" surveillance. This is a complex subject, which cannot be resolved without a thorough investigation of all the options, combined with a full and frank debate about the choices we face at a local and national level. That's why I hope this detailed response will address your concerns and set out how we intend to take this issue forward. I see this email as the beginning, not the end of the debate, and the links below provide an opportunity for you to take it further.

But let me be clear straight away: we have not made any decision about national road pricing. Indeed we are simply not yet in a position to do so. We are, for now, working with some local authorities that are interested in establishing local schemes to help address local congestion problems. Pricing is not being forced on any area, but any schemes would teach us more about how road pricing would work and inform decisions on a national scheme. And funds raised from these local schemes will be used to improve transport in those areas.

One thing I suspect we can all agree is that congestion is bad. It's bad for business because it disrupts the delivery of goods and services. It affects people's quality of life. And it is bad for the environment. That is why tackling congestion is a key priority for any Government.

Congestion is predicted to increase by 25% by 2015. This is being driven by economic prosperity. There are 6 million more vehicles on the road now than in 1997, and predictions are that this trend will continue.

Part of the solution is to improve public transport, and to make the most of the existing road network. We have more than doubled investment since 1997, spending £2.5 billion this year on buses and over £4 billion on trains - helping to explain why more people are using them than for decades. And we're committed to sustaining this investment, with over £140 billion of investment planned between now and 2015. We're also putting a great deal of effort into improving traffic flows - for example, over 1000 Highways Agency Traffic Officers now help to keep motorway traffic moving.

But all the evidence shows that improving public transport and tackling traffic bottlenecks will not by themselves prevent congestion getting worse. So we have a difficult choice to make about how we tackle the expected increase in congestion. This is a challenge that all political leaders have to face up to, and not just in the UK. For example, road pricing schemes are already in operation in Italy, Norway and Singapore, and others, such as the Netherlands, are developing schemes. Towns and cities across the world are looking at road pricing as a means of addressing congestion.

One option would be to allow congestion to grow unchecked. Given the forecast growth in traffic, doing nothing would mean that journeys within and between cities would take longer, and be less reliable. I think that would be bad for businesses, individuals and the environment. And the costs on us all will be real - congestion could cost an extra £22 billion in wasted time in England by 2025, of which £10-12 billion would be the direct cost on businesses.

A second option would be to try to build our way out of congestion. We could, of course, add new lanes to our motorways, widen roads in our congested city centres, and build new routes across the countryside. Certainly in some places new capacity will be part of the story. That is why we are widening the M25, M1 and M62. But I think people agree that we cannot simply build more and more roads, particularly when the evidence suggests that traffic quickly grows to fill any new capacity.

Tackling congestion in this way would also be extremely costly, requiring substantial sums to be diverted from other services such as education and health, or increases in taxes. If I tell you that one mile of new motorway costs as much as £30m, you'll have an idea of the sums this approach would entail.

That is why I believe that at least we need to explore the contribution road pricing can make to tackling congestion. It would not be in anyone's interests, especially those of motorists, to slam the door shut on road pricing without exploring it further.

It has been calculated that a national scheme - as part of a wider package of measures - could cut congestion significantly through small changes in our overall travel patterns. But any technology used would have to give definite guarantees about privacy being protected - as it should be. Existing technologies, such as mobile phones and pay-as-you-drive insurance schemes, may well be able to play a role here, by ensuring that the Government doesn't hold information about where vehicles have been. But there may also be opportunities presented by developments in new technology. Just as new medical technology is changing the NHS, so there will be changes in the transport sector. Our aim is to relieve traffic jams, not create a "Big Brother" society.

I know many people's biggest worry about road pricing is that it will be a "stealth tax" on motorists. It won't. Road pricing is about tackling congestion.

Clearly if we decided to move towards a system of national road pricing, there could be a case for moving away from the current system of motoring taxation. This could mean that those who use their car less, or can travel at less congested times, in less congested areas, for example in rural areas, would benefit from lower motoring costs overall. Those who travel longer distances at peak times and in more congested areas would pay more. But those are decisions for the future. At this stage, when no firm decision has been taken as to whether we will move towards a national scheme, stories about possible costs are simply not credible, since they depend on so many variables yet to be investigated, never mind decided.

Before we take any decisions about a national pricing scheme, we know that we have to have a system that works. A system that respects our privacy as individuals. A system that is fair. I fully accept that we don't have all the answers yet. That is why we are not rushing headlong into a national road pricing scheme. Before we take any decisions there would be further consultations. The public will, of course, have their say, as will Parliament.

We want to continue this debate, so that we can build a consensus around the best way to reduce congestion, protect the environment and support our businesses. If you want to find out more, please visit the attached links to more detailed information, and which also give opportunities to engage in further debate.

Yours sincerely,

Tony Blair

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mac
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Post by mac » Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:24 pm

I know many people's biggest worry about road pricing is that it will be a "stealth tax" on motorists. It won't. Road pricing is about tackling congestion


I read that as "we'll price everyone off the road to give more space to the rich folk in their SUV's"

Mac

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james
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Post by james » Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:03 am

greyrigg wrote:If you stay north of watford trains are largely irrelevant
Well said - cars rule in Scotland, you just cant get anywhere useful any other way. I tried the train into Glasgow last year a few times and it was a waste of time and money. I sit in the car now - its cheaper and quicker until its not we'll all still do it.

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mac
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Post by mac » Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:38 am

That's not strictly true,

Glasgow was an excellent rail network.


Mac

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james
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Post by james » Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:00 pm

mac wrote:That's not strictly true,

Glasgow was an excellent rail network.


Mac
Is that a deliberate mistake :lol:

yes I remember as a student there were several large carriage-like public vehicles that went in and out of Glasgow but since Im an east coaster Id forgotten that once back home.

Apparently someone told me there had been sightings of a train like contraption leaving Livingston a while back, but that reports it went missing on the way to Edinburgh couldnt be substantiated.

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mac
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Post by mac » Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:23 pm

James,

Things are going to be very different for the folk of Livingstone soon. But this is money being spent by the Exec and not central government.

Greater Glasgow does have a good rail network, unfortunatly it does get a bit overcrowed at rush hour.

Outside of that area the rail service is pretty poor though - it's unfortunate because as mass transit systems go the rail systems are very good - just in other countries where they see it as a public service and not as a business.

Mac

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