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Xenon lighting Kit - legal issues
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:22 pm
by Shug
Just hear this from Hambo (who some of you will know from Autotesting) He's a mechanic and keeps abreast of all the legal dodges and what the plod are pulling folk for - he called me tonight after reading some of the fitting threads on gas discharge lights...
Supposedly, these can be construed as illegal (under the Construction and Use Act) unless you have headlamp washers and a lamp levelling system. The neds have cottoned on to these and have been fitting them dangerously, hence the plod taking an interest.
The pull goes like this: the plod can ask you to turn the lights on, sees that they are Xenons and then asks you to use the washers. If you have washers on them, one plod will bounce the rear of the car to see if the lights move.
If it fails you can be done with a producer, penalty and points. Maybe worth contacting the retailers about this to see what the situation is, as it'd be pretty poor to have a pull for making your car safer to drive at night.
Obviously, this is in the same bracket as dodgy plates, in that you'll probably only ever get a pull on this if you've been pulled over for being naughty. Best to be in the know though...
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:25 pm
by jj
As far as I know, thats guff - something to do with construction and use regulations - rules about washers only apply to cars that are built with them and not retrofit kits.
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:27 pm
by Shug
Okay - but I'd do some digging. Hambo's not often wrong on this stuff - he does it for a living. If he's telling me about this, it's because he knows first hand of these pulls happening, not for bragging points.
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:32 pm
by jj
Will have a google. I remember a number of people on SELOC asking the same question during the group buy thread, and the same response being given, about retrofit being having different requirements to OEM.
In fairness, I am more worried about getting caught hitting redline in 3rd in the clyde tunnel than having lights that are great but cant be washed
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:32 pm
by Sanjøy
You would be gutted wouldn't you.
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:58 pm
by a4drk
jj wrote:In fairness, I am more worried about getting caught hitting redline in 3rd in the clyde tunnel than having lights that are great but cant be washed
You should video this & post it !
larini done this on their promo video - car sounds awesome.
David
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:04 pm
by mac
That's Simon's video - or it used to be.
Mac
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:57 pm
by Titanium S1 111S (gla)
Don’t know if there is a legal prohibition on the lights or not but I’m fairly sure the fat plods are not allowed to bounce up and down on the back of your car.
I’ll have a look at the Construction and Use Act (anybody know the section) and let you all know what it actually says rather than what the cops are saying it says which is not necessarily the same thing.
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:37 am
by Shug
Titanium S1 111S (gla) wrote:Don’t know if there is a legal prohibition on the lights or not but I’m fairly sure the fat plods are not allowed to bounce up and down on the back of your car.
I’ll have a look at the Construction and Use Act (anybody know the section) and let you all know what it actually says rather than what the cops are saying it says which is not necessarily the same thing.
That's the point!
Would be great for somebody who has access to have a look at the act itself (sorry, don't know the section) so we can use it if the plod do try this on. I know it's been done, we just need to know that it really is BS and to be able to quote them on it...
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:36 pm
by gorrie
a4drk wrote:jj wrote:In fairness, I am more worried about getting caught hitting redline in 3rd in the clyde tunnel than having lights that are great but cant be washed
You should video this & post it !
larini done this on their promo video - car sounds awesome.
David
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R87wr60o0U
Not in a tunnel, so must be great hearing that belting off the walls..
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:25 am
by simon
Just had mine MOTd with the HIDs fitted and no problems there.
And yes the Larini video that they used to send out was mine. I only found out when Iain Thomas mentioned it to me!
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:54 am
by Andy G
jj wrote:
In fairness, I am more worried about getting caught hitting redline in 3rd in the clyde tunnel t
shug and i did that in Convoy once - awesome!
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:30 pm
by CSK_423
When i ordered the Audi I chose the bi-xenon headlamps, after selecting this you automatically get self levelling lights and Headlamp washers, which would tie in with the above but again this is on a factory made model, if it was retro fitted would it apply ???
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:56 pm
by Dominic
I think this is a classic Hambo case of extreme paranoia
This is coming from the man who wont even give his friends his mobile phone number incase 'the greater them' can track him and phone him!
Cops poss are pulling neds, but I would take this story with a substantial pinch of salt.
I guess the suppliers of the HID kits would know what's what?
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:29 pm
by MacK
Just picked this up from VWAudi forum .co.uk.
I can confirm that from a document I received today from DFT (asked them MONTHS ago about it) basically... it WILL pass an MOT.
However, its not strictly legal (doesn't mean I might not consider it though ... its easily revertible if ever asked to...)
From the Department for Transport...
Quote:
The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 regulate the situation in the UK.
Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.
However new vehicles have HID headlamps. This is because they comply to European type approval Regulations. The UK cannot refuse to register a vehicle with a European type approval. These are to ECE Regulation 98 (for the HID headlamps which are tested on a rig in a laboratory) and ECE Regulation 48 (Lighting Installation on the vehicle).
For the after market, a used vehicle cannot obtain type approval because it is only applicable for new vehicles. However we feel that saying "HID is banned in the after market" would not be reasonable. Instead we should make analogies with new vehicles. It would be reasonable to require HID in the after market to meet the same safety standards as on new vehicles. The same level of safety should apply.
Therefore a HID headlamp unit sold in the after market should:
be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component.
when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place).
Comply with RVLR as far as "use" is concerned.
In practice this means:
The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.
Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.
The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.
Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.
In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.
So it seems that as new cars are EU compliant, and that over-rules UK law, then even though there is no recognition in UK law of HiD's then they are oky for factory fitted cars. They are 'technically' illegal for aftermarket fitting, but, as long as they are fully EU approved (bulbs lenses etc) and correctly fitted, they wont fail an MoT (because it's not part of the test)
This brings back memories of the Catalytic convertor V Cat bypass pipes, controversy on Seloc last year. i.e a new car must be fitted with a Cat, a car without a Cat can still pass an MoT/emmissions test...