Paving advice needed (NLC)

craigieb · Post by **craigieb** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:51 am

All,

Much in need of advice as whether the landscaper whos just finished my garden is having a laugh or has done a genuine job

He'd laid Bradstone Old Riven slabs in a 40 square metre area. Problem (as I see it) is it ain't level, in that from one slab to the next there's up to a 10mm drop/rise. It looks feckin horrendous, especially the bit I can see through the patio doors when I'm sitting on the sofa

When I questioned him orginally he's said it because the slabs are varying thicknesses. I've checked with Bradstone and the maximum difference in thickness (between thinest and thickest) is 6mm. He's also laid it on a base of sharp sand and cement rather than wet mortar which I always assumed should be used with varying thickness slabs so you still end up with a flat, level surface.

Am i talking mince or is he running a bath

Any advice on this greatly appreciated as Lorna is giving me a really hard time about this

cheers
craig

P.S. AndyG - won't be forwarding on this guys details to you afterall

Dominic · Post by **Dominic** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:58 am

Sounds like a poor job. I know a mix of sand and cement it normal (not sure about sharp sand)... only thing is, as soon as it's all damp, it will set. The slabs should all be level. They should have taken time to lay them consistanly. I would argue the point...IMHO

Andy G · Post by **Andy G** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:02 pm

oh cock - good luck getting it sorted matey

craigieb · Post by **craigieb** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:09 pm

Dominic wrote:Sounds like a poor job. I know a mix of sand and cement it normal (not sure about sharp sand)... only thing is, as soon as it's all damp, it will set. The slabs should all be level. They should have taken time to lay them consistanly. I would argue the point...IMHO

thanks dominic

, that's what I though but I'm on shoogly hook knowledge-wise and wanted to make sure I wasn't talking p1sh

DDtB · Post by **DDtB** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:23 pm

Sounds like a shoddy job.... in what world would someone want a new patio laid and not want it level???

If you haven't paid him yet... refuse to do it until he sorts it. Then tell him you are keeping X% back for 12 months to cover any faults which may occur - pretty standard in the construction industry... although the percentage varies...

Maybe then he'll pull his finger out and sort it...

Cheers,

Dave.

Dominic · Post by **Dominic** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:25 pm

DDtB wrote:Sounds like a shoddy job.... in what world would someone want a new patio laid and not want it level???

If you haven't paid him yet... refuse to do it until he sorts it. Then tell him you are keeping X% back for 12 months to cover any faults which may occur - pretty standard in the construction industry... although the percentage varies...

Maybe then he'll pull his finger out and sort it...

Cheers,

Dave.

Tell him you have taken legal advise too - if things get to that point

Rich H · Post by **Rich H** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:29 pm

Legal advice by "TSE Legal Eagles Ltd"

j2 lot · Post by **j2 lot** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:29 pm

I believe sharp sand is normally used for filling gaps between slabs, don't know if also for bedding slabs in - I have just laid slabs for path and was told ( and used) whin dust - fairly easy to get level.
I wouldn't be paying him anything until sorted. Keith

bertieduff · Post by **bertieduff** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:52 pm

He's talking bollocks.

Have him.

Money talks. Never ever ever ever pay for any building work up front or in a one-ey...(generally always keep a retention)....they might hate you but it works..

(architectural faction)

Brunty · Post by **Brunty** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:34 pm

We had exactly the same problem with a guy about a year ago. I'm just outside West Calder and wondering if it's the same one! You want to PM me his name, or if you'd prefer name and shame on here!

Brunty

gorrie · Post by **gorrie** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 3:05 pm

I've used Marshalls approved contractors with Marshalls products for my last 2 houses. You pay just 0.75% extra for a Marshalls guarantee and that means you can get them to send any other Marshalls contractor out to sort it.

Been stung too many times on house type things (my UPVc roofline was one), so I'm wary about companies with no backing now (sad, but true).

I take it this guy isn't a Marshalls approved contractor?

craigieb · Post by **craigieb** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 3:22 pm

gorrie wrote: I take it this guy isn't a Marshalls approved contractor?

sadly no

he's coming round tonight and I've stpped the cheque so I'll see what he says.

thanks for the advice guys

kerryxeg · Post by **kerryxeg** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:59 am

If its natural stone, they are usually in varying thicknesses and need to be on cement, to get it level but also to avoid cracking. Usually natural stone is pointed at the joints for a better finish but there are other methods. To get decent pointing you have to leave the correct gap.

For man made slabs of even thickness, it could be on sand or cement. If there is any sand in use it needs to be whacked (compacted) or you will endup with iceberg slabs silting in all directions and should have some form of edging.

Cement always takes longer but will give the best results and last longer if done correctly. If your pointing with brushed sand, its worth getting the proper kiln dried sand. This needs to be brushed over the stones then you run the whacker over the stones (obviously not for use on slabs) to get the sand to flow and lock the stones in place. You can also then put a resin over the whole lot which needs to be done immediately after. The resin soaks into the sand locks it in place for ever and also stops moss etc. I would not use sand between slabs, there is a high risk of it washing away over time, either flush is straight edged or point with cement.

I've done plenty projects and fixed a few cock-ups, but my neighbour is a proper landscaper and does it correctly (but he's in Aberdeen).

Kerry

craigieb · Post by **craigieb** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 8:40 am

kerryxeg wrote:If its natural stone, they are usually in varying thicknesses and need to be on cement, to get it level but also to avoid cracking. Usually natural stone is pointed at the joints for a better finish but there are other methods. To get decent pointing you have to leave the correct gap.

For man made slabs of even thickness, it could be on sand or cement. If there is any sand in use it needs to be whacked (compacted) or you will endup with iceberg slabs silting in all directions and should have some form of edging.

Cement always takes longer but will give the best results and last longer if done correctly. If your pointing with brushed sand, its worth getting the proper kiln dried sand. This needs to be brushed over the stones then you run the whacker over the stones (obviously not for use on slabs) to get the sand to flow and lock the stones in place. You can also then put a resin over the whole lot which needs to be done immediately after. The resin soaks into the sand locks it in place for ever and also stops moss etc. I would not use sand between slabs, there is a high risk of it washing away over time, either flush is straight edged or point with cement.

I've done plenty projects and fixed a few cock-ups, but my neighbour is a proper landscaper and does it correctly (but he's in Aberdeen).

Kerry

thanks kerry. i think the paving he's put down is the worst combination of the above - non-compacted sand base, varying thickness slabs and sand brushed into the joints

Post by **Shug** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 10:24 am

This wouldn't be a good time to mention Polish builders then.....

Sorry mate, couldn't resist. Hope you get it sorted as it doesn't sound like a cheap job at all