S2 111S or 135?

[colintinto]

Hi All,

Decided it's finally time to buy an Elise! (A few guys on here will know me already...)

Almost certainly looking to trade in my Impreza WRX 5 door (2005) for an S2 Elise.

(My 993 Turbo will be up for sale shortly too, so I need something fun to keep me happy

My budget is about 12k-13k or so, including the Scooby.

I think I've settled on an S2 111s, but I've seen a couple of 135's about as well at similar prices. I know the 135 has a bit less power, but an Evo review I read suggested that in some ways the 135 feels faster.

Anyone got any comments on the differences?

What are differences between the standard S2 and the 111s? More than just an ECU upgrade I take it?

And other than Autotrader and Pistonheads, is there anywhere I should be keeping an eye on?

Thanks!

Colin

[tut]

Hi Colin, good to see you on here and that you are finally joining the Elise fraternity.

Remember our road runs together on TDE etc when I was fortunate not to wipe myself out when behind your 22B in N1 TUT pre Honda conversion, and with very few miles under my belt. I think I was about three feet behind you when we overtook, but always managed to stay with you.

Having only owned standard S1's I will leave it to the others to advise you, but i know Robin, McApe and a few others will tell you that the 135R was probably the best variant.

However if you are covering all options, check this out that I just posted, S1 Audi conversion, 280hp, £12K. http://www.scottishelises.com/phpbb/vie ... =2&t=26991.

Would be great to get back together on a road run or on track at KH as in the old days, so get buying.

Cheers

tut

ps John Stewart will be on shortly, good friend of Colin's.

[jen]

Hi Colin. Im sorry I cant comment, but thought I'd say !

Jen

[ruadh08]

Hi Colin, good to hear from you again!

Defo go for the 111s, I have one and it is probably the best alrounder standard Elise I have owned! (OK I am lucky enough to have a 340r for the hardcore fun as well!)

Cheers

Paul

[campbell]

Colin,

Welcome along to the light side

Technically speaking, I can only speculate by extrapolating my S1 experiences, but here's my 2p...

Robin rates the S2 111S package pretty highly, IIRC...and Ali Crozier really enjoyed wringing the last few tenths out of his If I were in the market right now, that is almost certainly what I'd be looking at. It offers a great blend of performance for trackdays should you wish, with a bit of "luxury" (!) with a taller 5th gear for commutes and longer tours. And with 156 relatively reliable bhp on tap, in an 800kg car (or thereabouts), it's none too shabby.

135...well...if it's a "135 Sport" in S2 guise, then it's no more than a simple head conversion on an otherwise std 120bhp S2. Which is fine as far as it goes, but it's a simplistic head job, and a Kiwirog Sabre head (specced much like mine...details on request) is a better result IMHO.

However...if you are looking at the pukka 135R, this is an entirely different beast. Still the same CNC machined 135 head as from the 135 Sport, but with Lotus motorsport suspension (=HARD compared to the already fairly firmly sprung S2), OZ rims and semi-sticky tyres. Plus pimp-spec interior, and some serious limited edition kudos. I have driven Robin's 135R a few times, albeit not on track, and as a road car it's great but VERY firmly damped. Well damped, but pretty hard all the same. Might wind you up across rough roads, but if your beaten track is reasonable tarmac, then it's a beaut. And if you want to drive it to a circuit, abuse it for a day, then drive home with barely a whimper from it, then this is a strong option.

You will have fun choosing and as you can see, no end of opinion available on here!

If you tell us a bit more about how you expect to use it, we can maybe help a bit more! Note, you may find yourself using it in different ways to those you expected once you get it. These little plastic cars are addictive.. surprisingly light on fuel (even on track), relatively self-maintainable (with Jedi Master Iddon on tap to keep us right) and relatively depreciation proof if you buy into the right spec.

Enjoy the choosing

Campbell
(S1 11 years veteran and counting...can you believe it!...)

[robin]

Hi Colin

The 111S is probably better all rounder, especially if you have no intention of tuning it.

The 111S and all other K-series S2 variants except the 135R and 190 have the narrower front wheels (175 vs 195).

If you decide you want to track it and you get fed up with the 175 front wheels you can get a new set of wheels for ~1K that will be wider; you can always sell the others or keep them to fit when you sell it again.

If you decide you want to put firmer suspension on it, you can jump straight to the specialist Nitrons and suitable brackets for about 1.5K; depending on condition of the suspension you take off, you can punt that on too.

But, there will be no need to do that for just the road, or even for the odd bit of track use.

The difference between the 135R and 111S is not much, so at the end of the day it doesn't matter which you buy. I probably would avoid the sport135 which is just a standard car with the 135 head bolted on - better off buying a completely standard car and putting a Kiwirog or DVA head on instead.

Cheers,
Robin

[RDH]

As if by magic.... Kayfur has just put his 135r on the Market!

[colintinto]

Thanks guys.

Was planning on using it as a semi-daily driver, as it feels daft driving my Volvo tank to work on my own! Fuel consumption should be better than the 29mpg I'm getting right now too.

Will also get it out on track occasionally, but won't be it's main purpose. I've tried the track car route before and didn't have the time then to justify a dedicated car, and that was before the kiddies came along!

Bit of a 'how long is a piece of string' question, but is it better to go for a car with 60-70k miles on the clock, that has been used regularly, or stump up the extra 1-2k for one that's done 30k, but has probably sat in a garage for 6 months of the year...? Or just not care and get the colour right?

Colin

[cla5h]

I have the s2 111 - this should be the best "daily driver" due to the gearing and engine efficiency. It has the lowest tax band of the Elise variants, and a quoted combined figure of 40mpg (I get 31 mpg when used for 6 mile urban, 4 mile mway each way commute.)

Most Elises aren't used as everyday cars so there should be plenty of low mileage examples, although not sure I'd pay a £2k premium (unless you're comparing that to an old dog that's been thrashed every day.)
As long as it's been serviced on schedule I wouldn't worry about it sitting about for a lot of the year, and as you're planning on using yours everyday then I'd recommend avoiding high mileage examples.

[campbell]

is it better to go for a car with 60-70k miles on the clock, that has been used regularly, or stump up the extra 1-2k for one that's done 30k, but has probably sat in a garage for 6 months of the year...? Or just not care and get the colour right?

Colin

My view (happy to be corrected here) is that the S2 has already benefited from all the things they learned during the "development cycle" of the S1's tweaks and incarnations (!), so in principle you may as well buy the freshest example you can afford.

OTOH, if you have the time, you will be able to sort out just about ANYTHING that comes up with a longer-in-the-tooth car through the various Oracles on here...there are many, generally kept in line by Robin, Alan, Mikie, Craig, Dan amongst others

But you did say you were time-poor, and whilst fun (sort of...), tinkering an Elise can run away with hours, days, years of your life...you emerge from the garage thinking "crikey is it dark already??" or "crikey it was summer when I went in there, where did the seasons go?"

Note, you could easily spend £1k-£2k on replacing worn suspension items (dampers, balljoints, even a wishbone bush or two at a push) so that saving on the low-mileage premium by choosing mileage car, might quickly disappear.

Sounds like a fresh 111S is coming your way...in any colour except Sonic Blue or Yellow 'cos you've had those already

[ryallm]

I used to have an S2 135 Sport (not the 135R). Subjectively it feels just as quick as a 111s, probably down to it having a close ratio box which the 111s lacks, but the 111s is a more refined package. If I was buying a K series S2 I would look long and hard for a good 135R. For a mix of road and track use it is a great all rounder.

Mark

[ed]

Welcome!

s1s are faster!

[mckeann]

i find the standard bilstein suspension too soft for the road, so the 135R with LSS is a much better fun road car. If you want to use it every day then a 111S might be more comfortable however.

[Andy G]

See what you can get the best deal on.

Both are cracking cars, the 135r just a bit more track aimed - which is where it should be.

The Nitron cars like Mcapes S2, are fantastic on track - so good they dont have the power to overwhelm grip, unless you try to provoke it.

Either way relax in the fact that either is a great call, and if you feel like a more old School option, them Ed's 135 S1 has just hit the market, at what seems like very reasonable coin too.

Some great options between that and Kayfurs alone - without you needing to trail down south or go through the minefield that is Pistonheads

[campbell]

probably down to it having a close ratio box which the 111s lacks

I think the 111S has close ratios for 2nd and 3rd, but 4th and def 5th are longer-legged?