Newbie looking for S1 135 or 160

[SteveJB]

Hi Folks

After test driving a standard S2, I am looking for a S1(135 or 160). First Elise so would like a good example with all the problematic bits replaced to ease me into ownership. Can offer up to around £12k for the right one.

Alternatively, I've seen a 135 that I like the look of down south but I've never been in one to see how it goes. Are there any S1 135 owners out there that might take me for a short run(as passenger of course) & show me if they really are as good as the write ups? I'm in Edinburgh but will travel as required.

Thanks for looking

[Ferg]

Welcome. What turned you off the S2? Of course I see nothing wrong in your choice . There are several good threads on buying so get searching.

[SteveJB]

Don't think the S2 I drove was a good example so no offence to anyone, but it felt underpowered.

If I can find someone with a 135 that can show me what that's like, I 've found one that I like but its so far away that it would be good to see a benchmark before travelling to hopefully buy it.

[robin]

Until close to the red line there isn't much difference between a 120 and 135. In fact below 3,500 the 120 might have the edge. A 160 might exhibit this even more so.

S2 has close ratio box as standard so will actually accelerate a bit quicker to the limiter in each gear than an S1 (though time vs speed will be more-or-less the same in both cars given the same engine).

It's all about the corners in an Elise - unless you get into donor engine or supercharger territory they just don't feel like they are accelerating that quickly, especially if you're used to fast/big engined cars.

Cheers,
Robin

[Dominic]

I have an S1 Sport 135 '99. I'm in Glasgow, so not too far away if you want a wee pax run at some point. Mine is not entirely standard, but near enough in character.

Drop me a PM if you want to arrange something.

Having tried several standard S1's I much prefer the close ratio gear box that comes with the 135, and mine certainly feels quite a bit quicker than the 118bhp cars,... although it has had a few minor tweeks. If you have done your research you'll know that the 135 had nearer 145 bhp when it left the factory, and (not wanting to upset 160 owners) but it has been suggested that original 160s did not quite have the full 160 (although most now do), and the 160's did not get the close ratio box.

Dom.

P.S. can I congratulate you on your excellent taste in cars

[j2 lot]

[AJT]

[m400kay]

i agree with campbell its all about late braking and carrying speed you really need to go Pax with someone who can show you what we mean, it really runs on rails in the dry so u can really scare some exotic crap on a nice b road.

[Mike Scib]

I agree with Robin in that its all about the corners, however i could still not bring my self to buy a standard S1/S2. My old 135, now Dom's always felt perticuarly quick, i was very disapointed after driving Mckeann's 135R as it just felt flat!

Would love a Scandal 160

[robin]

Mckean's 135R had more torque/power than any standard 135 ever will.

Perhaps it was just the extra refinement of the S2 chassis and lack of bits falling off it, rumbling wheel bearings, etc., that made it feel less exciting

Seriously, unless you're sold on the S1 for a stylistic reason I would always suggest going down the S2 route as in general they break less.

Cheers,
Robin

[Dominic]

Hi,

It was great to meet you on Saturday. I hope the short pax run in the car was informative. Keep us posted on how your car shopping gets on.

[campbell]

Important point from Robin re: breakage.

To actively choose to go into S1 ownership now, with considerably more S2s to pick from, has to be done in full awareness that you'll need to spend more time and/or money keeping an S1 going for like mileage.

I can't argue with an emotional pref for S1s, I'm not part of the light-hearted but occasionally heated "S1 vs S2" debate, however given the choice from carte blanche an S2 does probably make more sense. There may still be a couple of £k price diff but that could be easily recouped by reduced maintenance over the first couple of years. And that's not to mention the time off-the-road...after all, you are buying it to drive it!

You can find S2s with a 135 kit, or swap/improve the head to get the same or better results, so bang for buck needn't hold you back.

All that said, if you take your time you'll find a nice S1 and if it's led a decent life then the majority of tasks are achievable with the right tools, a bit of encouragement, time and space, and/or help from our increasingly good value local Lotus dealer and of course not least the tech experts on here.

Campbell

[Shug]

Sadly, the fact is that an S1 has to be thought of as a 'classic' car now (from a maintenance POV) - in that there are getting to be parts issues and the cars are of a physical age where things wear out, independent of how well they are kept. That said, what does go tends to be cheaper to fix on the S1 in comparison to the 'improved' bits on S2 Wheel bearings are a case in point - a consumable on the S1, the S2s are much better and last longer, but if you need one, it's twice the price at least. Plus, the S1 is the rawer drive - I've been in all variety of hardcore S2s, but none of them feel, to me, as "Elisey" as a good S1 (although that's a personal view tainted by my own experience of what makes the Elise experience)

Fact is, however, if you're looking to a less problematic car, I'm afraid you're looking at an S2. If you really want an S1, then it's because you prefer the looks, or it's rawer nature, but don't pick one because you think it's a cheaper or 'less hassle' prospect - these days, it's not.

along though - you've done the right thing in picking the guys brains here first.

[robin]

If by "raw" you mean bits falling off, I agree.

S2 wheel bearings are a good case in point for why you should buy an S2 ... yes, they cost 2x the S1, until you factor in the (unobtainium) S1 upright and drive flange that need to be replaced in order to make the new bearing actually last more than 100 laps ...

Cheers,
Robin

[Shug]

If by "raw" you mean bits falling off, I agree.

S2 wheel bearings are a good case in point for why you should buy an S2 ... yes, they cost 2x the S1, until you factor in the (unobtainium) S1 upright and drive flange that need to be replaced in order to make the new bearing actually last more than 100 laps ...

Cheers,
Robin

You're a nasty man...

...Don't you listen to the big bully, little Shugmobile...