I require some mmc pads for the early mmc discs However after reading Lakeside
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/lakesideengi ... prod02.htm
and also the ppc elise mag artical ( this month ) that also doesn't rate the later aftermarket pads "you will need to make the retograde step to steel discs - you carnt buy the original pads and the available ones arnt great"
I am somewhat reluctant to spend £200 on pads that are not recomended
when the cash can go towards a decent steel disc setup, anyone using the said pattern pads and how do you find them compared with the lotus original type
1) stick with the mmc discs and pattern pads
2) shove cheap discs and mintex 1144 and try to find lotus pads to refit mmc discs
3) fit quality discs and pads sell the mmc discs on
recomendations please
MMC disc pads
The MMC pads both we (elise-shop) and Geary sell are the same as the original OE spec.
When we first started doing them, we received a number of complaints about the pads 'scratching' the discs. We contacted the US supplier (which is ran by the people who originally delivered the MMC's to Lotus!!) and explained the situation.
They told us "no way.. can't be.." so we've sent a couple of discs to the US for inspection.
All inspected discs showed traces of stones which caused the scratching.
Why these stones got trapped easier wasn't clear to any of us, so we have asked the supplier to return to the original compound.
So that's where we are at the moment: the original compound as it was used by Lotus... what more do you want?
By the way, the other compound performed better overall and specifically in the wet, the only downside was the scratching, which was more of an optical problem then a functional problem.
When we first started doing them, we received a number of complaints about the pads 'scratching' the discs. We contacted the US supplier (which is ran by the people who originally delivered the MMC's to Lotus!!) and explained the situation.
They told us "no way.. can't be.." so we've sent a couple of discs to the US for inspection.
All inspected discs showed traces of stones which caused the scratching.
Why these stones got trapped easier wasn't clear to any of us, so we have asked the supplier to return to the original compound.
So that's where we are at the moment: the original compound as it was used by Lotus... what more do you want?
By the way, the other compound performed better overall and specifically in the wet, the only downside was the scratching, which was more of an optical problem then a functional problem.
no s***e on KH better braked cars would dive in front then brake realy hard , ( pagids i guess ) i had to be very carefull not to run into the rear of them quite hairytimmsky wrote:Bob,YvoTuk wrote:By the way, to get the same performance from steel discs, you need to fork out for proper pads (RS14 or so)
Is the Mintex pads/MMC discs combination not working out now?
Iain
never having mmc pads (my car came with soft mintex ) i am deciding if i should go for mmc or put the £200 towards dba and pagids
mostly road use 175+bhp , its not the cost ( i just want decent feel brakes )but are propper shod mmc that good ? or use the oppertunity to go a steel / alloy combo
MMC's never did Tut any harm and he drives closer and harder than many... I've never had a problem with him following me on the odd occasionhiscot wrote:no s***e on KH better braked cars would dive in front then brake realy hard , ( pagids i guess ) i had to be very carefull not to run into the rear of them quite hairytimmsky wrote:Bob,YvoTuk wrote:By the way, to get the same performance from steel discs, you need to fork out for proper pads (RS14 or so)
Is the Mintex pads/MMC discs combination not working out now?
Iain
never having mmc pads (my car came with soft mintex ) i am deciding if i should go for mmc or put the £200 towards dba and pagids
mostly road use 175+bhp , its not the cost ( i just want decent feel brakes )but are propper shod mmc that good ? or use the oppertunity to go a steel / alloy combo
I did suggest to you that they might show their limits on track
You could get MutsNuts discs from Stu and a set of Pagids if you're changing away from MMC's and there will be a plethora of folk hunting you down for your old discs... in fact I would be surprised if Tut hasn't already PM'd you about them...
Cheers,
Iain
'00 S1 Elise (permanently SORN'ed it feels like) 
'25 Tesla M3 daily
'94 Suzuki Cappuccino
'25 Tesla M3 daily
'94 Suzuki Cappuccino
Ian if the compound is excatly the same as lotus used then it makes sence to retain the mmc
but with stories of how the new pads destroyed the discs and an explantion of stones getting under the certain compound pads but not the early coumpound ???? dont make sence to me
if the new compound was not leaving a desposit on the disc as mmc pads should then that would explain things better, however if the newer mmc pads are now back to the std lotus compound then they should work as intended
but with stories of how the new pads destroyed the discs and an explantion of stones getting under the certain compound pads but not the early coumpound ???? dont make sence to me
if the new compound was not leaving a desposit on the disc as mmc pads should then that would explain things better, however if the newer mmc pads are now back to the std lotus compound then they should work as intended
The only thing I can think of is that the newer compound we used for a while is a slightly softer then the original compound. Therefore, a small piece of stone which gets trapped between the pad and the disc might be pressed into the pad, so the piece of stone gets trapped between.
now that's a theory only
now that's a theory only
I called the Lotus technical guys on this and was told that they are unable to supply pads because the original manufacturing process used some nasties, arsenic or cyanide and Lead within the process. The use of these is now banned or controlled such that the process cannot be carried out in todays market.
He then further stated that the original manufacturer tried various compounds and processes to try to achieve the same result. These apparently were unsucseefull and did not pass muster with lotus but he believed that some retailers were supplying the pads using compounds which Lotus rejected.
He then further stated that the original manufacturer tried various compounds and processes to try to achieve the same result. These apparently were unsucseefull and did not pass muster with lotus but he believed that some retailers were supplying the pads using compounds which Lotus rejected.
If you're not living on the edge you're wasting too much space!
I think you should see things in a chronologic order.
The RoHS statement has been activated July 1st last year.
Lotus ran out of thier stock way before that (as in YEARS before!). They have sent out a service bulletin in which they made a special offer to convert customers from MMC discs and pads to Steel dics and pads. The swap also involved leaving the 'old' MMC discs at the dealer (and not getting anything for them)
The service bulletin was issues way before any RoHS discussion and didn't mention anything about this eiter.
Most people either ignored this and continued using MMC's or changed to cheaper solutions. (Lotus pricing for discs and pads is somewhat different to ours)
The reason for Lotus not to continue with MMC technology was because the OE supplier went bust. A small group of technical people from the OE supplier set up their own business and started producing MMC pads (and discs, but not for the Elise)
It is hard to find out what's happening during discussions behind closed doors, but the pad supplier has a totally differnt view of things.
They claim there's not been any technical issue, in fact, current compound is exactly the same as the original Lotus compound.
They told us there was a commercial discussions. Lotus asked them to continue exclusive supply, the supplier told them they didn't want to, Lotus walked away.
Lotus is earning a lot more from customers who converted from MMC to Steel; the swap was expensive to begin with and the consumables are a lot more expensive then MMC as the steel discs/pads wear a lot more then MMC's. The conversion is in their own interest.
The RoHS statement has been activated July 1st last year.
Lotus ran out of thier stock way before that (as in YEARS before!). They have sent out a service bulletin in which they made a special offer to convert customers from MMC discs and pads to Steel dics and pads. The swap also involved leaving the 'old' MMC discs at the dealer (and not getting anything for them
)The service bulletin was issues way before any RoHS discussion and didn't mention anything about this eiter.
Most people either ignored this and continued using MMC's or changed to cheaper solutions. (Lotus pricing for discs and pads is somewhat different to ours)
The reason for Lotus not to continue with MMC technology was because the OE supplier went bust. A small group of technical people from the OE supplier set up their own business and started producing MMC pads (and discs, but not for the Elise)
It is hard to find out what's happening during discussions behind closed doors, but the pad supplier has a totally differnt view of things.
They claim there's not been any technical issue, in fact, current compound is exactly the same as the original Lotus compound.
They told us there was a commercial discussions. Lotus asked them to continue exclusive supply, the supplier told them they didn't want to, Lotus walked away.
Lotus is earning a lot more from customers who converted from MMC to Steel; the swap was expensive to begin with and the consumables are a lot more expensive then MMC as the steel discs/pads wear a lot more then MMC's. The conversion is in their own interest.
Yvo,
Have you heard any talk in relation to the chemicals used in the manufacturing process?
I ask becaus the Lotus story seemed plausible and I have a set of MMC's in the garage wich i would like to use but for which I need pads but i don't want to destroy them.
Have you heard any talk in relation to the chemicals used in the manufacturing process?
I ask becaus the Lotus story seemed plausible and I have a set of MMC's in the garage wich i would like to use but for which I need pads but i don't want to destroy them.
If you're not living on the edge you're wasting too much space!
Sorry, I should have explained this better then I did
RoHS is a European directive which describes and limits the use of hazardous susbtances. That is what Lotus is reffering to.
The RoHS directive was a Euro only thing, but meanwhile, this has spread all around the world, Far East is cooperating and even US are cooperating.
Now, I would indeed say the story is plausible if the timing was correct.
RoHS has been implemented as of 1st of July 2006. The service bulletin which described the change (and "special" offer) from MMC to Steel has been published years before this. In fact, at the time the bulletin was published, the RoHS plans were not at all clear, so I find it very hard to believe if not unbelievable that this has anything to do with it.
As mentioned, the pads we're currently selling are the same compound as the original ones. The complaints about scratching have stopped, so I'd say that problem is solved..
By the way, the deposits of MMC brakes are a lot better for the environment then steel brakes. If only you compare the amount of dust which comes form steel pads and discs to that of the MMC's, you will get the hang of it
RoHS is a European directive which describes and limits the use of hazardous susbtances. That is what Lotus is reffering to.
The RoHS directive was a Euro only thing, but meanwhile, this has spread all around the world, Far East is cooperating and even US are cooperating.
Now, I would indeed say the story is plausible if the timing was correct.
RoHS has been implemented as of 1st of July 2006. The service bulletin which described the change (and "special" offer) from MMC to Steel has been published years before this. In fact, at the time the bulletin was published, the RoHS plans were not at all clear, so I find it very hard to believe if not unbelievable that this has anything to do with it.
As mentioned, the pads we're currently selling are the same compound as the original ones. The complaints about scratching have stopped, so I'd say that problem is solved..
By the way, the deposits of MMC brakes are a lot better for the environment then steel brakes. If only you compare the amount of dust which comes form steel pads and discs to that of the MMC's, you will get the hang of it