Strange non-starting issue

jj · Post by jj » Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:45 pm

I had the car up on axle stands at the rear at the weekend to change oil / fit gearlinkage/ sort undertray/ do pads.

I went to start the car whilst the rear was up in the air, it started fine, idled for 2 or 3 mins, no oil leaks so turned it off.

Tried to start it the next day, nothing. Took it down off the stands, started first time, went for a run up to loch lomond, stopped and started it a few times. Got home last night, turned it off. Fuel gauge now showing 11L.

Went to start it tonight, nothing. Starter spins but it just doesnt fire into life. I have not put petrol in it since last week.

In my non-expert view I am guessing I might have air somewhere?

Cheers,
JJ

robin · Post by **robin** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:57 am

At 11L you should be OK for fuel pickup no matter what angle the car is at. The fuel system should cope with air in the lines - I have never had a problem restarting after dismantling (which always allows air in).

Can you hear the fuel pump whine when you switch on/attempt to start (the exige uses the Esprit ECU IIRC, so I cannot say whether it would prime the system in the same way as the normal elises - I am sure someone on Exiges.com will know).

Cheers,
Robin

H8OAG · Post by **H8OAG** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:25 am

JJ

Check the battery............it is always the battery

There are huge threads on S1 non starting and most end up being battery

S1 Exige battery does not like being left for any length of time and needs turned over regularly

Mine went through a period of non starting (brand new battery) ......which was solved by leaving it on a trickle charge.

It won't fuel unless the engines cranking at a certain speed?

jj · Post by jj » Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:47 am

Cheers chaps.

Robin, when I turn off the immob then turn on the ignition, there are a couple of clicks then there is a 2 second electrical hummmm noise which I assumed to be the fuel pump.

Battery sounds likely Iain- should I be looking to get a meter then and measure what the battery is at? The battery looks very new, but I dont have a receipt to work out how old it is.

cheers

jj

Post by **Shug** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:50 am

jj wrote:Cheers chaps.

Robin, when I turn off the immob then turn on the ignition, there are a couple of clicks then there is a 2 second electrical hummmm noise which I assumed to be the fuel pump.

Battery sounds likely Iain- should I be looking to get a meter then and measure what the battery is at? The battery looks very new, but I dont have a receipt to work out how old it is.

cheers

jj

Don't matter - could be 2 minutes old, but if it's stood and you've cranked it, there's a good chance it won't fire. Just charge it and try again.

jj · Post by jj » Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:58 am

So one of those booster pack things then? Battery issues are a new one on me

I was just thinking last night - this is my fourth Lotii and the first time that any of them havent started. Think I`ve been lucky until now

Post by **Shug** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:02 am

jj wrote:So one of those booster pack things then? Battery issues are a new one on me

I was just thinking last night - this is my fourth Lotii and the first time that any of them havent started. Think I`ve been lucky until now

Booster is a good investment - I'd assume the VHPD would take a bit more effort to get it to catch.

robin · Post by **robin** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:08 pm

If it turns over healthily I would be surprised to find it is the battery, but I bow to the experience of those who have had Exiges ... get a meter and measure battery voltage while (a) ignition off (b) ignition on (c) cranking.

If it drops a lot while cranking it might be the ECU dropping out of regulation I suppose.

Cheers,
Robin

P.S. It will also be worth measuring the voltage between the big red terminal on the back of the starter and the gearbox housing at these same three points.

jj · Post by jj » Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:16 pm

I have got bro on the case giving it a jump start, and if that works I`ll buy a meter and investigate this evening (but was kind of hoping to make dukes pass).

Post by **Shug** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:29 pm

robin wrote:If it turns over healthily I would be surprised to find it is the battery, but I bow to the experience of those who have had Exiges ... get a meter and measure battery voltage while (a) ignition off (b) ignition on (c) cranking.

If it drops a lot while cranking it might be the ECU dropping out of regulation I suppose.

Cheers,
Robin

P.S. It will also be worth measuring the voltage between the big red terminal on the back of the starter and the gearbox housing at these same three points.

No Exige, but I know with the TB's it does need to be properly healthy before it's a total pig to start - doesn't take much slowing of the starter before it's 'twist and pray'

Having an IACV in there (as I assume the Exige does) may help though.

jj · Post by jj » Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:48 pm

Right, bro connected it to his car with the jump leads, started instantly.

What does this mean it is? New battery or a trickle charger required? Or both?

Cheers guys.

H8OAG · Post by **H8OAG** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:54 pm

Yassum.......sounds familiar

In my view .........you will need the conditioner if your car is not in daily use.

Try that as a first logical step

robin · Post by **robin** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:24 pm

The car should not be so sensitive to charge level though - so I would also be checking the earth straps - it may be that the ECU is seeing a low voltage simply because the earth straps are corroded and that you only just get away with it on a 100% charged battery. The easy way to know for sure is to measure as I described earlier.

Cheers,
Robin

jj · Post by jj » Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:32 pm

robin wrote:The car should not be so sensitive to charge level though - so I would also be checking the earth straps - it may be that the ECU is seeing a low voltage simply because the earth straps are corroded and that you only just get away with it on a 100% charged battery. The easy way to know for sure is to measure as I described earlier.

Cheers,
Robin

Will get a meter when I am round at machinemart this afternoon. One thing I did notice when the trays were off was that the eart strap (thick wire with black plastic cover?) and the alternator are both brand new, I guess replaced when the engine was out.

robin · Post by **robin** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:25 pm

It could also be the one at the front.

The problem with these things is that the ECU is earthed and powered from the rear via the same cables that feed the starter and main chassis earth. (edit: by the time the exige came along, the elise had this problem fixed with dedicated supply wiring for the ECU; but who knows what wiring the Exige has!!).

So if you get a voltage drop on those wires during cranking (and as it's >100A cranking current, you're always going to get some voltage drop) then the ECU sees that drop. The Esprit ECU is old, so is going to be most sensitive to supply voltage - it could be struggling at 10v - certainly by 8v it will be in trouble. So if you're seeing something like 8v at the back when cranking, so is the ECU, and hence it might just give up and reset.

If you're seeing 10v at the front and 8v at the back, the problem lies in the cabling - if you're seeing 8v front and back then the problem is that the battery is sh*t (or flat).

Cheers,
Robin