HID light conversion

ExigeKen · Post by **ExigeKen** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:48 pm

Shug wrote:
meatball wrote:It fell off *cough*
Your cat do the same?

You've been drinking already, haven't you?

Now now children

Rich H · Post by **Rich H** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:42 pm

You'd not have to worry about the emissions Shug, their exhaust probe would melt...

Post by **Shug** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:43 pm

Yeah, my cat pipe hasn't as much rusted, as sheared with shock, by the looks of it

meatball · Post by **meatball** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:53 pm

Drinking....nope......working till 5am..........joy!
Not even OT!

YvoTuk · Post by **YvoTuk** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:32 pm

Sorry... have been rather occupied lately

Government decided that HID without levelers and washers were dangerous. Nice statement, but technically a bit of a shortcut as some reflectors are perfectly capable of coping with HID where others don't. Most projection systems (aka the S2) are absolutely great with HID's.

Background of all this is the lobby of some big suppliers like Hella and Valeo. They don't like the Far East people to 'rob' their business by offering relatively cheap upgrades. They obviously have hired people who are 'massaging' government people.

If the HID is a good HID, it will project light in the same pattern as a normal lamp, only three times as much light as standard.
The only downside is that any scatter which was already present will also be three times as much, which in a bad reflector can cause some grieve.

Think of the Valeo reflectors used in some of the Renaults, they are very close to dazzling with a standard lamp, so when you put an HID in such a unit, you will start blinding / dazzling other people.
When you'd check the beam pattern at MOT, you would find these units to fail as they generate too much overshoot.
Problem seems to be that MOT testers have ignored this till today, which fed the anti everything people who aimed their arrows at HID's "as they are dazzling".

Maybe someone can explain to me how the levelers and washers would stop this in such a unit. I don't think it will as the unit is cheap plastic rubbish to start with..

Ofcourse, fed by the big Euro companies, the government doesn't tell car manufacturers to deliver cars with proper lights or change the minimal spec of a reflector.. nope... they aim for the aftermarket as this is a scattered market which is not controlled by any of the big companies.

In Holland, all started by a complete ban.
Everyone had to remove the HID's from their car, otherwise they would be fined etc.
Lot's of people who invested in HID kits and who could perfectly prove that the beam pattern was correct (they passed Dutch MOT) started to complain and the Dutch variant of RAC picked that up towards politics.
At the end, the government agreed that this total ban would be a rather pointless capital destruction, so they agreed to ban aftermarket HID's on car which were registered after 1-6-2007.

This seems to work fine here.

Now.. for the people who are constantly raving about these illegal kits etc...
these kits are as legal as putting braided hoses on your car, or anything else then PZeros on an Elise S1!
EVERY change to something which was not originally your car officially invalidates the type approval.
So who's running a perfectly legal car?

Post by **Shug** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:19 am

Yvo - nobody's 'raving' about them being illegal - but we need to be aware of what the law is and make sure we know the score. Sure, you could pick any Elise and there would be a good percentage chance that something would not meet the letter of the law.

I don't have intimate knowledge of the UK's "Construction and Use" act, but I believe it's more lax than your laws, so I don't think your example of braided hoses and different tyres is correct for the UK - it's not the same as the HID situation here. There has been a specific VOSA ruling for HID kits, so that's what we're talking about.

Nobody is trying to kill your market for these kits, but similarly people need to know the issues with what they are buying. By any logical measure, HID kits are much better than standard lights, but who said the law used logic all the time?

ABZ-Elise · Post by **ABZ-Elise** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:19 pm

YvoTuk wrote:these kits are as legal as putting braided hoses on your car, or anything else then PZeros on an Elise S1!
EVERY change to something which was not originally your car officially invalidates the type approval.
So who's running a perfectly legal car?

Me!

...well I've still got the P Zeros anyway

steve_weegie · Post by **steve_weegie** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:27 pm

ABZ-Elise wrote:
YvoTuk wrote:these kits are as legal as putting braided hoses on your car, or anything else then PZeros on an Elise S1!
EVERY change to something which was not originally your car officially invalidates the type approval.
So who's running a perfectly legal car?
Me! ...well I've still got the P Zeros anyway

Give it another few hundred posts and a few runs....

YvoTuk · Post by **YvoTuk** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:17 pm

Shug, any VOSA ruling will rely on a European law, which is all based on the original type approval of the car.

What the Euro fools want is a zero tolerance ruling based on type approval. E.g. any change you make will invalidate the registration.
As this is practically impossible, local governments are making up their own rules. This VOSA ruling is one of them.

Mind you, I'm not upset by the fact that the aftermarket HID market would collapse. I'm upset by the ignorance of the local governments. They don't investigate or solve a problem by taking away the cause, they are just fighting the symptons.

I would heavily agree if local governments would demand better quality lighting from car manufacturers. (better reflectors / projectors). When that side is solved, there's absolutely no problem to use HID's.

From there, you can simply say the beam pattern needs to be ok and you'll be ready.

Post by **Shug** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:53 pm

Agree with you there Yvo

Rich H · Post by **Rich H** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:12 pm

Can't see an MOT tester getting grubby and checking the bulbs really.

Post by **Shug** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:04 pm

RICHARDHUMBLE wrote:Can't see an MOT tester getting grubby and checking the bulbs really.

No, absolutely not - don't have the kit to do it. It'd be a roadside VOSA check thing and I'm sure they wouldn't bother unless they saw the lights flaring on approach.

Again, in the real world, this really won't mean much - it's just that what was a grey area has been put into black and white.

Rich H · Post by **Rich H** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:06 pm

Or a dark bit of the headlight pattern brought into the light?

:

a4drk · Post by **a4drk** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:29 pm

I fitted 85w Blue Vision bulbs to the S2 Elise.
They are awesome.
Because its a projecter bulb, you get away with it.
I've had comments that they do look like Xenons.

If you put a blue bulb in a normal headlamp, the reflector is all blue & it cheapens the look... (as in the case of my 330d)

David

Matelotman · Post by **Matelotman** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:42 pm

The bottom line is that anyone can put anything they want on their car - but it's nice to be informed of the legislation because VoSA or the plod won't take "I didn't know" as an exuse.... same goes for cat's etc