111R MIL Lights....?

Post by **simon** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:26 pm

Yeah, agreed. They took the job on and were working on it FOC as if under warranty. They gave the car back and left Andy under the impression that it was repaired. Their failure to repair it surely holds them/Lotus liable for it?

I'm waiting to hear back about a decision on warranty work I need done from them. I've been promised a phone call tomorrow about it so hopefully it'll get the go ahead. My situation was different though in that I took the car in whilst still under warranty. Also, I am getting my indicator replaced for free next saturday and that failed out of warranty but is a known problem.

Rich H · Post by **Rich H** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:30 pm

Sounds like MMC will be liable as regardless of thier good will, if they took it on then they should have fixed it or told him that they can't. Their work must be garunteed. Unfortunate for them in a way as 'yotas are supposed to be bomb proof so would not have been suspected.

Stephen · Post by **Stephen** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:36 pm

Andy,
write everything down and make sure that you have an accurate note to hand every time you make a call.
Get names etc every time you speak to someone.
Did you get an MMC warranty when you purchased the car in addition to any warranty from lotus?
Gennerally dealer warranties are not worth much as they only cover big things like total engine / gearbox failure, so this may be in your favour here.
Did the original MIL light ever get fixed. I would argue that this was the engine trying to tell MMC that something really bad was happening!
If MMC just continually plug it into a pc and expect the car to tell them what's wrong without investigating then they have been less than dilligent.
You pay big ££££ tor their mechanical expertise not for some YTS to plug in the pc and say computer says.

Post by **simon** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:32 pm

Ady bought his car new so he had the 2 year/20k mile manufacturer warranty.

Sanjøy · Post by **Sanjøy** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:38 pm

Man this blows the big one and seriously changes my view on ever buying a new car from Lotus if this is the after care.

Andy if you get the final GTF letter from Lotus/MMC you can count on me to do my stint on the picket line on a sunny sales afternoon.

MacK · Post by **MacK** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:04 pm

(change stupid to Sanjoy)

Andy that is terrible news.

A 20,000 mile, 2 year warranty sounds a bit 'measly' anyway, I never realised they had so little faith in their product (Lotus) even with a Toyota engine!

If they (MMC) were looking at the original MIL light prob under warranty (whether in limit or implied) then surely any fix is free.

Yours as you are aware is not the only car to have had 'problems' with the 'yota engine. Surley the factory must aknowlege this

At least the 'Sale of Goods Act' must come into play in this. Greg maybe could shed more light, but, my understanding is that the goods sold must be "fit for purpose" i.e. the reason they are sold for, for at least 5 years! So your engine packing up in half that time is surely contravening that!

Anyway if I can help you just ask, Andy.

Enjoy your break!

John

Post by **simon** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:50 pm

I think it's 6 years for SOG act.

Stephen · Post by **Stephen** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:00 pm

Look here
http://www.dti.gov.uk/consumers/Fact%20 ... 24700.html

â€¢ For up to six years after purchase (five years from discovery in Scotland) purchasers can demand damages (which a court would equate to the cost of a repair or replacement).

Andy G · Post by **Andy G** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:45 am

Hi Guys

The bottom end has gone.

I'm just massively pissed off that the car had been in 7 times to be fixed (actually over 10 trips) in 2 months. I Pick it up and 50 miles later the engine goes pop!

I've done everything by the book and am now being told to forget it. Phoning Lotus about this today...they may have lost a potential life time customer.

I also have no faith in MMC fixing this properly.

Oh, and its nearly 1 month that its been off the road with no action to fix it

A great summer!

robin · Post by **robin** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:11 pm

Depressing though this is, I don't think there is any suggestion that this failure is related to the long running MIL saga?

The bottom end of the engine should not fail in such a short period of time (a reasonable person would expect the engine to last much longer than yours has).

I would think you have a claim against MMC that the engine was faulty when purchased if there is no obvious explanation of why this should have happened to your engine (hole in sump, foreign body in oil, lack of servicing, ...). Remember the claim is against the retailer not the manufacturer ... so Lotus is good place to look for good will but if it goes legal I think MMC are on the hook.

Have you checked out what the parts price of the new engine is - I know they charge about 3.5K for a complete 1.8K but in your case I would think a short block + gasket set would be adequate (really one could just replace the bearings and crank if damaged, but for such a high revving engine I would prefer to get a factory built bottom end). This may cost more like 2K in parts than 7 .. of course you need to get someone to build and fit it ... but that could be done anywhere you trust and think charge reasonable prices. You would need an engine manual too, but no doubt this is available from Toyota or the internet ...

Cheers,
Robin

Andy G · Post by **Andy G** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 5:49 pm

thanks for the advice Robin.

Just been on the phone to Lotus (@ Hethel not MMC).

Unbelievably MMC failed to tell them that the car has been in 7 times in the last 2 months for a recurring MIL light problem!

They are now sending one of their engineers to investigate what is actually going on with it.

The good news is that they are trying to help further and had already told MMC they would provide a new engine at cost.

Hopefully now I've spoken with them things will start to move in the right direction.

In all credit to Graeme he had actually been on the phone to them himself trying to get it resolved. (poss as Bills on holiday)

I just want a working car back before summer becomes winter

thinfourth · Post by **thinfourth** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:01 pm

If your management has been getting confused is it possible that it has been knocking life fook and that has increased the pressure on the bearings and they have wiped.

I would expect if it was an il surge problem then there would be damage in other areas especially on cam lobes.

i'm no expert on little petrol engines but on a big one then you would see damage in other areas.

robin · Post by **robin** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:15 am

thinfourth wrote:If your management has been getting confused is it possible that it has been knocking life fook and that has increased the pressure on the bearings and they have wiped.

I would expect if it was an il surge problem then there would be damage in other areas especially on cam lobes.

i'm no expert on little petrol engines but on a big one then you would see damage in other areas.

The whole point of the MIL and related ECU limp home modes is to avoid this type of problem, so I would be surprised. No point speculating though - engine needs to get taken to bits and someone has to pay for that to happen - I hope Lotus do the decent thing ...

Cheers
Robin