Cylinder head reconditioning recommendations?

fudnie · Post by **fudnie** » Mon Dec 30, 2013 5:44 pm

After a head gasket failure earlier in the year I've finally got round to getting the head off. Now what I'm looking for is someone who can do all the clever stuff to recondition it.
Looking on fleabay a place called redmans engines offers this kind of service, I was wondering if anyone has used them? Or any other recommendations in the Aberdeen area?

Cheers, Craig

mwmackenzie · Post by **mwmackenzie** » Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:29 pm

Drop Stu160 on here a PM. Heis the owner of a precision engineering company in Livingston who has done an awful lot of work for the masses on here

KingK_series · Post by **KingK_series** » Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:20 pm

fudnie wrote:After a head gasket failure earlier in the year I've finally got round to getting the head off. Now what I'm looking for is someone who can do all the clever stuff to recondition it.
Looking on fleabay a place called redmans engines offers this kind of service, I was wondering if anyone has used them? Or any other recommendations in the Aberdeen area?

Cheers, Craig

what do you mean recondition?

- there are lots of garages used to dealing with the 226 type - non heat treated Ally alloy used in - Toyotas/Fords/Vauxhalls/Hondas/Bmws/Mercedes Benz etc etc - everyone in fact except Mercedes AMG, Aston Martin and Rover who do not seem to understand that this alloy is heat treated -

Unfortunately once soft there is nothing to do except chuck the head and find a good new one - the problem is that all said garages etc etc do not have the accurate calibrated hardness testers to test the heads - which is the most basic requirement on this engine - so amongst the fog of ignorance, the lack of proper kit, you get people skimming - useless - welding up - stupid and useless, - inserting alloy rings - expensive and useless - all of which will condemn you to much expense and long term frustration

- find someone with a properly calibrated digital hardness tester and check your head, if its less than 95 brinnel, bin it and find a good one

fudnie · Post by **fudnie** » Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:45 pm

By recondition I was meaning things like clean, report, decoke, reseat valves and generally tidy it up. Along with checking for any warpage or softening if possible.

I am aware of the implications of skimming the heat treated area of the metal but i figure a slightly skimmed face is better than a warped one!

As for the hardness testing, I've tried briefly to find someone who can do that, what i don't know is where, on the head to test as, to my understanding at least, brinnel testing is destructive to the point it leaves permanent deformation to the tested face.

If it fails, it has obviously been "over cooked" so i would thing that the block would be affected the same way - id be tempted to replace the whole engine, maybe with something more modern...

robin · Post by **robin** » Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:52 pm

I suspect that you need to use a rebound type of hardness tester. That doesn't dent the head.

I don't know of anywhere that has one.

I very much doubt that most k heads are ever tested.

Cheers,
Robin

robin · Post by **robin** » Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:54 pm

Is there an obvious failure on your gasket? Did you notice it due to coolant loss or overheating or what?

Ta,
Robin

fudnie · Post by **fudnie** » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:20 pm

up and down variation in temperature concluding in it jumping right up and me stopping in rush hour traffic! coolant just kept flowing into the oil, got home and drained it. With the head off it looks to me like an obvious gasket failure (im no expert though) as there was a nice flappy bit of red coming off the plate. I suppose this could have happened when i lifted the head. But that is the problem *buries head in sand.

I doubt they were all tested too, but i would guess they would test a sample from each batch, possibly destructively?

Craig

robin · Post by **robin** » Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:41 pm

Oh, I wasn't commenting on original manufacture. Just on what happens post failure.

Water to oil failure caused by elastomer failure seems plausible.

If you didn't overheat then in the absence of a rebound hardness tester I suggest you get a good gasket, clean it up (gently, no sense in skimming) and slap it back together. New bolts might be simpler than checking existing ones.

While you're at it replace water pump and obviously can belt and tensioner.

Cheers,
Robin

fudnie · Post by **fudnie** » Sun Jan 05, 2014 12:39 pm

Yeah I've got a new MLS gasket, new bolts, belts, tensioner, water pump also new oil rail and prrt.

I did limp it home so I am worried I over heated it - I'll find somewhere to test it

woody · Post by **woody** » Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:30 pm

A local college may have a hardness tester you could use. What does the fire ring area look like?

robin · Post by **robin** » Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:29 pm

It is definitely easiest to fit PRT while the head is off - access to the stat is easiest that way.

Be careful when fitting the new oil rail ... make sure you don't disturb the liners while swapping the oil rail ... you're supposed to clamp the liners while the head is off (nobody bothers for a head gasket job).

Given you didn't have combustion->coolant leak (at least not one you noticed), I really wouldn't worry about it too much

If it fails again in a few 1,000 miles then you'll need to think what you do, but realistically your options are then going to be limited to chucking away the head and replacing it, removing the block to deck the liners and/or fitting a new engine.

Cheers,
Robin

robin · Post by **robin** » Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:31 pm

P.S. If you really want somebody to look at the head, I would send it to Kiwirog and have him look at it - he's seen so many that I am sure he'll be able to tell you whether your's looks boiled or just lightly toasted.

Cheers,
Robin

KingK_series · Post by **KingK_series** » Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:27 pm

fudnie wrote:By recondition I was meaning things like clean, report, decoke, reseat valves and generally tidy it up. Along with checking for any warpage or softening if possible.

I am aware of the implications of skimming the heat treated area of the metal but i figure a slightly skimmed face is better than a warped one!

As for the hardness testing, I've tried briefly to find someone who can do that, what i don't know is where, on the head to test as, to my understanding at least, brinnel testing is destructive to the point it leaves permanent deformation to the tested face.

If it fails, it has obviously been "over cooked" so i would thing that the block would be affected the same way - id be tempted to replace the whole engine, maybe with something more modern...

Hi

a modern digital tester will leave a small round dent where the ball hits the surface, however if you avoid dog this where the gasket fire ring sits you will not have any issues with testing

- from your descriptioon of your heads recent life Id say there is a very high chance its gone soft and is scrap - in which case no amount of cash will prevent you having ongoing 'HGF'

forever and ever..............

all heads are tested on the production line and come off the line 115-120 brinnel

Scottish Elises

Cylinder head reconditioning recommendations?

Cylinder head reconditioning recommendations?

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