Uprated Toe Links

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Ferg
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Uprated Toe Links

Post by Ferg » Mon May 12, 2014 9:50 am

Had a bash at these at the weekend.

Turned this.
Image

Into this.
Image

I was dreading drilling the subframe for the brackets but that turned out to be the easiest bit, the sub frame is apparently made of cheese. :shock:
Getting the nuts on the other wide was dead fiddly and access limited but nothing you can't fix with tape rapped round your fingers.

The whole thing would have gone fine except for the bloody top nut on the old nearside outside link. It basically got to the last nuts worth of thread and seized. I peeled open three 17mm spanners in the process of trying to get it off. Took the brakes off for better access but still a nightmare. Was close to hacksaw when, with wedges in holding things in place and a mahoosive bar, it turned. I have bruised hands. It added 2.5 hours of fecking about to the process which I could have done without but hey, standard issue DIY attempt. :roll: :lol:

Ran out of daylight so it's just awaiting some duralac (which I though my old man had but he'd lost), torquing up and setting the toe before a full geo.

The bumpsteer shims have caused a little confusion, and after searching various forums I'm not much better informed. :scratch I thought best to install as close to the existing position as I could. The old rods had three shims (washers) in and in order to get the toe link to sit approximately the same distance from the hub I needed all three supplied shims (ally washers of various thickness). I obviously don't want to mess with the bumpsteer, does this sound right to anyone who's done it before?

Generally pleased with the results though. :thumbsup :blackeye

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Stu160
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Re: Uprated Toe Links

Post by Stu160 » Mon May 12, 2014 10:12 am

Hi Ferg.

I am not sure, but i thought the ally bracket was to be used on the ally hubs , and the steel ones dont need them?

Looking at the angle of the wishbone to the toe link , i would put the washers on top , to the bottom as well, but without a geo , its hard to tell.

Cheers

Stu
S1 S160
Caterham 310R

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Shug
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Re: Uprated Toe Links

Post by Shug » Mon May 12, 2014 10:23 am

:withstupid

Pretty sure I didn't use an ally dual shear bracket on the uprated toe links on mine - unless the kits have changed over the years?
2010 Honda VFR1200F
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Ferg
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Re: Uprated Toe Links

Post by Ferg » Mon May 12, 2014 11:00 am

OK, so my car is not the cleanest underneath, but that is actually an Alloy Hub carrier. :oops: :thumbsup

The stack of washers is in the right place, happy with that, but it's the number of washers or the distance its pushed down that I'm interested in. The end of the toe link is in the same location relative to the hub (which what matters for bump steer AFAIK) as it was with the old link, so comfortable it's not going to be too different. Doesn't mean the car was setup correctly in the first place though. :)

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Stu160
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Re: Uprated Toe Links

Post by Stu160 » Mon May 12, 2014 12:24 pm

Hi Ferg.

Oops, it looked like the steel one :roll:

And if the toe link is the same distance from the bottom of the hub, then thats all good. It just looked a bit low to me, but hard to tell from a picture :thumbsup

Stu
S1 S160
Caterham 310R

woody
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Re: Uprated Toe Links

Post by woody » Mon May 12, 2014 12:43 pm

The alloy double shear bracket has no where to bolt to on the steel hubs anyway.

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Ferg
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Re: Uprated Toe Links

Post by Ferg » Tue May 13, 2014 9:46 am

Heres a pic to show that difference between position of new and old rod ends.

Image

So even with all the supplied spacers, the link is still fractionally higher than before. Apparently a few mm can make a large difference to the bump steer effect. Whats annoying is that considering the geometry is relatively constant on these cars, that there isn't a table showing the distance from the hub that the toe link should be in order to achieve manufacturer recommendations for bump steer at different ride heights. I'll go with it as it stands and see how it feels. :)

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Re: Uprated Toe Links

Post by woody » Tue May 13, 2014 10:54 am

Is there space to lower the tie arm in the bracket? If there is, can you not buy more shims? Remember seeing bump steer graphs on seloc a long time ago, but can't remember the details.

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tut
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Re: Uprated Toe Links

Post by tut » Tue May 13, 2014 11:12 am


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alicrozier
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Re: Uprated Toe Links

Post by alicrozier » Tue May 13, 2014 11:31 am

All characters appearing in this post are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.
Any references to laptimes, speed or driving on the public highway are purely for dramatic effect.

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Ferg
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Re: Uprated Toe Links

Post by Ferg » Tue May 13, 2014 2:11 pm

Yes I've been looking at the bump steer graphs and various measurement methods, none of which are straight forward. i.e. without removing various parts.

Ali, thanks for the link to the service bulletin. Very useful :)

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campbell
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Re: Uprated Toe Links

Post by campbell » Wed May 14, 2014 6:42 pm

You reaaaaally have faaaar too much time in your hands, Ferg! But full respect for taking that on.
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Scuffers
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Re: Uprated Toe Links

Post by Scuffers » Wed May 14, 2014 7:23 pm

way to set it by eye is to look at it from the back 100% horizontally when it;s on it;s wheels, then compare the angle of the toe link to the wishbone.

the toe link should be slightly lower outboard than the wishbone such that there is a very small angle between them.

then make sure they are the same both sides.

then measure with string and a jack.

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Ferg
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Re: Uprated Toe Links

Post by Ferg » Thu May 15, 2014 8:02 am

Nice real world checks Scuffers, thanks.

Campbell, if only. Difficult to find time for anything recently. Tinkering with the car is welcome relaxation. :-)

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