111R rebuild

[H8OAG]

Mike

This thread is a good Sunday Morning read!

Do I detect you are close to finding out why the beggar will not start?

With regards the fuses, could you mount them in the cabin (to the rear of/under the seats) ...........or along the dash panel in a race car stylee?
As previously stated, I admire your attention to detail/dilligence................and now patience

[Dave]

Quick question, are these engines fitted with a crank sensor? If so it might be worth checking this as well.

[pete]

Mike

This thread is a good Sunday Morning read!

Do I detect you are close to finding out why the beggar will not start?

With regards the fuses, could you mount them in the cabin (to the rear of/under the seats) ...........or along the dash panel in a race car stylee?
As previously stated, I admire your attention to detail/dilligence................and now patience

[Mikie711]

More on the engine troubles ..............
Cat changed, this after talking on text with Craig as there was a possibility that a blocked cat can cause the symptoms.
The P0340 code is a red herring, all it is saying is the engine miss fired/failed to run but is not the cause rather the outcome.
Throttle position in the live data is all a bit weird. TP shows as 18.8% and rises to 80% fully open. There are however 2 other throttle position readings which are TP_R 4.7% and TP_B 51% both of which rise as the pedal is pressed. Should read 0%.
The rev counter needle swings round to above 10,000rpm and stays there. Not sure if this is new or I just didn't notice before. I know this means something but can't remember what it is that causes it.
Still won't run

Now have acces to the on-line Toyota manuals for the Celica with the 2zz engine. It's a subscription service much like Lotus one but the entire set of manuals are there.

To download from Toyota Europe, go here

Pay to register. Cost varies depending on length of subscription.

Be prepared for pain because you download each section individually, and there are lots of sections...

Download the following:
Elise/Exige 6 Speed Engine Manual: B120T0327J
English Repair Manual ENGINE (2000-->) vehicle id: ZZT231
Toyota Identifier is RM733E
Search for Celica/English, under Repair Manual/Engine

Elise/Exige 6 Speed Engine Supplement: C120T0327J
English Repair Manual ENGINE (2001-->) vehicle id: ZZE123 From Oct. 2001 production.
Toyota Identifier is RM929E
search for Corolla/English. Under Repair Manual/Engine.

Elise/Exige 6 Speed Transmission: D120T0327J
English Repair Manual CHASSIS + BODY (2001-->) vehicle id: ZZE123 C64 Manual Transaxle
Toyota Identifier is RM930E
Search for Corolla/English, under Repair Manual/Chassis+Body

[Mikie711]

So have now tried swapping the ECU to see if the symptoms disappear and they don't. I have a stock ECU from Shug for an early electronic throttle car so standard factory map and all the readings and indications are the same although I didn't try starting it. Pulled the fan relay apart and found this though


IMG_1037 by Mikie711, on Flickr

This is the inside of the fan control module which does a hell of a lot more than it's name suggests. Will try jumpering it out to see if it is what is causing all the weirdness.

[robin]

Mike, is that not flux? Is it like a resin substance, not dissimilar to what you get off pine trees? If so then it's flux and harmless. maybe that connector got reworked at some point?

[Mikie711]

Robin.it was a crusty like substance, seemed to clean off OK though. Have now started disconnecting stuff to see if anything changes. Kinda at a loss now as to what might be causing this.

[robin]

You've swapped to another ECU but not yet tried to start the engine - would it make sense to try and start it on the ex-Shug ECU to see whether it actually behaves the same way?

Also it would really make sense to hook the live data reading tool up to another similar vehicle to compare/contrast all the data to see where yours differs.

It does sound like the throttle reading might be the issue - I wonder if there's a calibration step like on a normal throttle - some sort of ignition on, pump pedal up and down loads, turn ignition off kind of thing.

Failing that it might be that the wiring to the throttle pedal. There are 6 wires that run to the throttle pedal - two potentiometers in the pedal - not sure why there are two pots in the pedal, but there'll be a reason. Anyway I would measure the resistance between

Y yellow
N brown
W white

B black
U blue
G green

You should see constant resistance from Y-W and B-G. You should see the resistance between B-U and Y-N vary as the pedal is moved. You can do all this from ECU plug with battery disconnected or ignition off as you wish (though you may need a glamorous assistant to operate the throttle pedal).

Cheers,

Robin

[Mikie711]

Robin,
Alan was round tonight and we spent a bit of time hunting down the wiring fault that was affecting the stack. Didn't really find anything. Alan suggested the same thing so tried starting the car and it fired up first time, and revs freely with Shugs ECU.
Now that leaves 2 possible problems either it's a dodgy ECU/been configured incorrectly, going to send it back to Lotus to have it checked and hopefully replaced. Or the injectors I have fitted are the wrong size. If they are original size and not the larger SC sized injectors then the injector period in the fueling map will be way to short and may not be able to sustain running after the start up enrichment cycle. In other words enough fuel to get it to kick but not keep running. Have another set on there way so hopefully be able to find out one way or another.
Either way now know that the fault is not in the wiring which means I can carry on and finish everything else off and wait for a replacement.
There is no way the ECU can have been spiked as it was the last thing connected and have been extremely careful with regard to battery polarity so all the leaves is an ECU fault/config problem.
Incidentally the live data with Shugs ECU reports the same values as the new ECU for the throttle, at least within a few percent.
Thanks for your help and suggestions.

Onwards and upwards

[campbell]

You've swapped to another ECU but not yet tried to start the engine - would it make sense to try and start it on the ex-Shug ECU to see whether it actually behaves the same way?

Phew. Sometimes it's the most obvious things, Mikey

Following this thread with interest and respect.

I think this forum has sufficient information and experience between its boffins to write Haynes Manuals for all variants of Elise now!

[woody]

[Mikie711]

Yep relief all round now I know it at least runs.

The stack issue is a separate and unrelated problem. Initially I thought they were connected but now I think it's a wiring difference between the MY04 - 05 cars and the MY 06 - 07 cars. The later cars have an extra power feed to pin B5 (difficult to see the proper number in the wiring diagram so may not be B5 but is one of the B row pins) in the stack and have a different arrangement of warning lights and as such carry a different part number. I was always aware of this and of the possibility of having to change the dash. So really only a matter of time before it started misbehaving given that it is not really compatible with the wiring as it is now.

Hindsight is always 20 - 20.

Big, and I mean big shout out to Craig. Guys on holiday and must have racked up a small fortune texting me with suggestions and questions. So, have yourself a cocktail on me and enjoy the rest of your holiday.

[pete]

Following this thread with interest and respect.

[campbell]

It's hard to imagine where else you'd get dealer and factory support for such a madcap project, Mikie...

[Shug]

I find it slightly ironic, given my notorious auto-electrickery bodging over the years, that something I provided comes to the electrical rescue...

Glad you've got to the bottom of something Mikey - when we put the VVC onto throttle bodies on my old car, it was pretty much the same symptoms (fuelling, basically) traced to the throttle stop being far too open for the reduced idle airflow needs of the VVC versus a 285 solid-cammed number. At least you've established where the issue is, which is the hard bit with solving. It's all logical trial and error from here on in.

Was never going to be easy - cracking stuff so far.