Toe Links <BG>

Rich H · Post by **Rich H** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:50 am

The inner dbl shear bracket looks rubbish, just folded plate and some (None structural!) pop rivets. Ask Stu nicely, I'm sure he can do better!

Rich

mac · Post by **mac** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:52 am

The word from Lotus is - S1's running anything other than sticky tyres then the upgrade should be done.

S2's have a stronger inner balljoint so it's much less of an issue and the guy I deal with said he has only heard of a very few failures. He recommend checking them for signs of wear/fatigue and failure pre and post trackdays.

Perhaps I should introduce them into my maintance schedule? I've done 4+ years now and have made the decision to start replacing the balljoints etc, I think I'll add the inner toe links to the list of consumables.

Mac

Post by **Shug** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:57 am

mac wrote:The word from Lotus is - S1's running anything other than sticky tyres then the upgrade should be done.

S2's have a stronger inner balljoint so it's much less of an issue and the guy I deal with said he has only heard of a very few failures. He recommend checking them for signs of wear/fatigue and failure pre and post trackdays.

Mac

Is it worth asking if the stronger inner balljoint was also fitted to later S1's? Mine was different to Tuts (although it retro-fitted) and the design was more intelligent. It still snapped though....

There was no fatigue on the break - it was actually a totally clean break all of it was new (no crack with a little rust intrusion/discolouration, as you'd expect from a growing fatigue crack)

The joint was totally silent as well (no creaks or clunks), but it's seized solid pretty much straight away and then snapped the threaded shaft. So I don't know how I could have prevented it by inspection....

Post by **Shug** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:58 am

RICHARDHUMBLE wrote:The inner dbl shear bracket looks rubbish, just folded plate and some (None structural!) pop rivets. Ask Stu nicely, I'm sure he can do better!

Rich

I believe the TADTS kit has slightly beefier plate, which is bolted, not riveted.

mac · Post by **mac** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 12:03 pm

Shug,

I didn't go into specific but I did mention that there was a failure on a W plate S1. Perhaps they revised it when they went from 16" ro 17" rears?

Mac

Post by **Shug** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 12:08 pm

Aye - all possible mate. It's just that a lot of early S2's have the feel of a S1.5 under the skin - lots of wee things rolled out late in the S1 life that progressed through to the S2.

Like you say - the change to rim size could have prompted a beef up - but then they would have done the same on the VX and they've broken...

TBH, I just don't like taking chances (however slim) If I were you and running track geo/tyres/dampers I'd take the hit and put something bullet-proof on there.

/2c

Lazydonkey · Post by **Lazydonkey** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 12:12 pm

AFAIK the VX set up is the same as the S2, could be wrong though as they seem to be a funny mix of s1 / s2 in places.

I was told that no inspection could have picked it up.......

mac · Post by **mac** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 12:33 pm

I can just imagine the conversation ..................

Vauxhall to Lotus - "We've noticed a lot of the rear toe links breaking"

Lotus to Vauxhall - "Just one second and I'll speak to the person who deals with this section of the vehicle"

Vauxhall are now listening to piped musac

Lotus 1 to Lotus 2 "heh, vauxhall are on the phone saying that the toe links are snapping"

Lotus 2 to Lotus 1 "that's cause they've got the s1 stuff that we had lying around on it"

Lotus 1 to Lotus 2 "will I tell them that there's an upgrade for it?"

Lotus 2 to Lotus 1 " nah - serves them right for buying a VX in the first places and besides when the bin them they might come to us for a proper elise"

Lotus to Vauxhall "We've not had any issues with our cars - must be a bad batch of alloy - just replace them."

Mac

Stephen · Post by **Stephen** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 1:49 pm

Been chatting to shug an decided to bring this on line for general comment.
Have a look here - specially at the cost!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... %3AIT&rd=1

The brackets look pretty simple to fabricate inboard. Outboard the steel hub carriers apparently do not require them but that I think is because the carrier is strong enough, but what about the bolt??
I need both inboard and outboard strengtheners (for the alloy carrier). It may be worth getting a hold of tut's old one for Stu to copy?

The rods would be no problem either get a female rose joint and use a length of rod or go with the standard set up and use a length of hydraulic 3mm wall thickness tube tapped at the ends. Aprox £10 for a 12m length from hub tubes in paisley.

Comments from the technically wise (Robin / Rich) please???

Post by **Shug** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 1:54 pm

Only comment I'd make about using hydraulic tube is that it's handy to have spanner flats on the rod, to help snug up the locknuts on the rod ends.

Mac's just told me that the GT3 cars use a brace across the two toe links inside the rear of the car. Just a bar, secured with the suspension/toe link mounting bolts. Possible alternative to drilling holes in the subframe and whacking in plates....

Uldis · Post by **Uldis** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 5:09 pm

I know what you mean.
After all, they are stock on the Exige S1, and it came std with Yoko A039's (not the A048's because they didn't exist then, but as soon as they were available they were recommended as std spec).

AFAIK The uprated toe links were suggested when using slicks and harder, lower suspension, i.e. when you're going to get tremendous side grip.
Not really needed with 48's.

But in Shugs case, it'd be daft not to, as when one goes, normally the others won't take too long to go as well.

Stephen · Post by **Stephen** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 6:11 pm

Do you know how to file things other than your nails

the cross brace sounds ok but it will be heavy and still induces sheer but to both bolts rather than just one,
I would suggest that the best solution would be a mount that transfers the load to the sub frame but with a slope rather than the right angles of the kit.

Rich H · Post by **Rich H** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 6:44 pm

Chat to Mark in Banchory about ball joint suppliers, all his hill climbers are rose joint suspention and he goes through loads.

The fundamental problem (If I understand correctly) is that the rose joint has snapped off (Pics?) The only way of improving the strength is go for a better one or a bigger one (Or a bigger and better one) The mounts being in double and single shear will just relieve the stresses on the mounting bolt which didn't fail.

IMHO if you are worried about these links failing as you have sticky tyres, etc then upgrade them with better ones, if not then just replace the joints next time you have a geo, shouldn't cost much and would give piece of mind (A bit anyway!) Fitting joints with bleed nipples and rubber boots would be a good move too, especially as they dry out and sieze eventually.

All IMHO

Rich

mac · Post by **mac** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 6:46 pm

Don't know about the cross brace being a compromise - it's whats fitted to the GT3 racers.

Helps with rear stiffness too.

Just as a footnote - I asked if the new set up could be retro fitted and at the moment it can't be but I was invited to take my car down to the factory to be the doner car and see if it can be fitted to a K series S2.

Obviously it all comes down to pennies so I asked, given a limited budget which of the three items they would consider the best route.

1 - Oil Cooler
2 - LSD
3 - Toe links

The guy know the way my car is set up and that it's mainly track focused, so they really don't think it's an issue on the S2 if I'm being told to fit and LSD before changing toe links.

2p

Mac

robin · Post by **robin** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 7:05 pm

mac wrote:I'll be whipping my undertray of either tonight or tuesday night - I'll take some photo's of my inner ball joints when I do.

Mac

Mac, the S2 (at least your vintage) has a balljoint with a threaded stud that acts as the pivot bolt for the wishbone also - it is "single sheer" as Shug describes.

For the S1 alloy hubs you get a support bracket, for the steel ones you don't (implying to me that single sheer may not be as much an issue as the metal the bolt is mounted through!).

Cheers,
Robin