Massive Over Fueling - Emerald

[robin]

P.S. If you share your map with us (post a dropbox link here) then we can take a look at it - note there are two files to share - the actual map and the ECU configuration file.

[steve_weegie]

Yes, without a wideband, the Emerald will not use the AFR target.

This could be an ignition problem if it's related to Carbon Monoxide (CO) content in the exhaust gas. Did it fail at idle?

[Ferg]

Can get the maps put up later, but I'm pretty sure adaptive fueling isn't enabled from what I saw. I realised the other day away from the car that you need both config and map so downloaded them from the ECU last time I was there.

Is it adaptive fueling that allows for changes in atmospheric conditions etc? Or is that just handled with offsets?

[Ferg]

Is this a valid way to get wideband feed to the emerald?

https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/st ... uge-st3401

Says it has a feed for ECU. Quite like the idea of a 'paranoia' gauge.

EDIT: answer seems to be that they are not so good as others because they can't be calibrated..... however the PLX stuff does 'need' calibrated either. The two are porbably comprable on price.

[steve_weegie]

Yep, looks like it would work, or alternatively something like an Innovate LC-2 or a AEM Uego to provide the sensor and the electronics package to the ecu. I like the Innovate ( I have mwmackenzies one that's worked perfectly for me) as it has 2 outputs that can be calibrated independantly. AEM can be useful as they have a CAN gateway, but that's likely overkill unless you're going down an integrated datalog solution from multiple vendors.

Personally, I've never used a gauge while tuning as I rely on dataloggers to tie up the AFR to the RPM / Throttle position.

PS. Calibration would be done on the ECU side, so dont worry too much about what the Stack unit outputs. Emerald relies on a voltage table to translate the input from whatever unit you select to an AFR value.

[Mikie711]

Ferg, if you go for this one I have the slave gauge that you see in this one. You can have it for nowt I also have a spare bosch wide band sensor for it.
PLX gear is spot on, both me and Alan used them. Me on my K series and Alan on his Toxic frog. Self calibrating so you don't need to remove the sensor to fresh air every so often, module is small and discrete.

[Ferg]

Agree Steve the gauge isn't for tuning but I kind of liked the idea of an audible alarm when things aren't right.

Good recommendations for PLX. The information out there for it is certainly more comprehensive which is a good thing. I've happy to buy a gauge Mike but if it's going gash I'll happily cross your palm with booze for one you don't need. I've just ordered the PLX box and sensor.

[2F45T4U]

Hi,

im pretty busy this morning so ive only had a chance to 'skim' this post so appologies if im repeating what someone has already said..

first of all, am i right in saying this engine+ecu have never passed emmissions on this map? ie this is the first MOT since instal? if its passed before without the ecu being changed in anyway then it may be a physical problem in which case its obviously a different route we go down and best not tweaking anything.

assuming the former, a few comments.
it's impossible to tell by looking at the fuel map to know whethere or not its right. Sure the shape will give an idea, but 2 or 3 clicks of the fuel in the idle box will make huge differences to the AFR and therefor CO+HC so its difficult to judge. also, the numbers in the boxes cant be compared unless you know what the MSPB is

Ign doesnt look mental but there is no table to look at.

what does seem confusing is your AFR target, 14.7 isnt what you want all across the map but should just be around where idle and 50mph/70mph cruise sites.
What you have to check is the 'feedback mode' and 'closed loop settings' boxes.

if all the sites in 'feedback mode' are white then you wont have any adaptive or closed loop tuning making any changes to your base map. ie, whatever your target box says, it wont be having any effect until you shade them green. Dont use closed loop for idle or it will hunt and chase its tale for ever. Make it adaptive as below. with adaptive, any additions or subtractions to the base map are placed in 'AFR corrections' table



Closed loop settings is where the control of the 'auto tune' if you only have a narrow band sensor, select 'simple O2' , but you really need a wideband to do it properly.



its pretty hard to advise what to actually do here. unltimately you probably need an MOT in order to get it to a dyno to be done properly. Without full confidence in the map or a wideband to see what's going on, this is just a bodge to get you through an MOT.

option 1 (prefered), trailer it up and have it mapped, then MOT it.

option 2. turn off idle control, clear the adaptations table around idle and 'fast idle', set the table to adaptive and drive it around. check out the adaptations table to check its been making changes, once its settled down and the idle is smooth, turn on idle control, try another MOT. gingerly drive to get it mapped.

Option 3. turn off the adaptations, take laptop to MOT and speak nicely to the MOT tester. Change the fueling to suit the HC and CO until it passes and get it mapped ASAP. this is a pain as the MOT equipment only gives you a very small window to make changes before it ends the test.

ive got a 4-gas DGA for final tidy up after RR mapping and its a God send (making idle and fast idle sites MOT friendly). But, providing the idle AFR is 14.7 its normally within range of an MOT. Hopefully thats a guide to where you need to be.

[Ferg]

Thanks for that. Background is that I bought the car with the K6 installed and this is the first MOT I've taken the car through so it's history with MOTs is unknown. The fitting and MAP was done by a well known Tuner in Fife. It didn't come with a CAT which I have subsequently bought and fitted for the purpose of it being there during the MOT.

I've not touched anything on the map yey or added/subtracted in 'live' mode as I'm worried about damaging something.

In answer to your question, yes all boxes in the feedback mode table are white/ have no values.

I wondered what the MSPB was for. Now reading up I understand, can't remember what is was off the top of my head. In the Emerald FAQ it suggest this can be a place to adjust the fuelling of a map. Would this be a way to get an idle and 2500rpm reduction on fuel? I was wondering whether if you did something like this you could set the soft limiter to 4k rpm to protect the engine?

[2F45T4U]

MSPB can be used as an 'overall trim' so it offsets the whole map +or-. If you get a map which was tuned to an engine of the same spec as yours, you can use this to get it running pretty closely before a final tune
you 'can' use this to get it through an MOT but obvioulsy it will have an effect all the other sites so it should be used with caution, also you dont know how much to move it by until you get to the MOT, nor do you know if its just the idle sites that are wrong, or the whole map so you're as well just changing the sites you need to.

The limiter is a simple setup, the second bottom tab 'events' then enter the value where you want the limiter to come in at.

[Sanjøy]

Two options, Honda or friendly MOT station

S

[Mikie711]

Agree Steve the gauge isn't for tuning but I kind of liked the idea of an audible alarm when things aren't right.

Good recommendations for PLX. The information out there for it is certainly more comprehensive which is a good thing. I've happy to buy a gauge Mike but if it's going gash I'll happily cross your palm with booze for one you don't need. I've just ordered the PLX box and sensor.

I'll dig out the gauge and bring down to KH in Sept. Remind me nearer the time, terrible memory

[tut]

You can say that again.

What happened to you helping me install the new Jacuzzi/Whirlpool bath?

tut

[Mikie711]

You can say that again.

What happened to you helping me install the new Jacuzzi/Whirlpool bath?

tut

News to me, think you might have actually forgot to tell me!

[Ferg]

Mike and Tut having a chat....