Drying out the Duratec

The place to "speak geek"
User avatar
tut
Barefoot Ninja
Posts: 22975
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 5:53 pm
Location: Tut End, Glen of Newmill

Re: Drying out the Duratec

Post by tut » Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:21 am

I can imagine how you felt when you discovered that.

Interested to hear what Caterham's response is.

tut

User avatar
Gourlay83
Posts: 1663
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:59 pm
Location: Aberdeen

Re: Drying out the Duratec

Post by Gourlay83 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:34 am

Excellent post :thumbsup, keep them coming (with the Fancy Pics).

Sorry to hear about the Gearbox, how the hell could Caterham miss that ??? Real shame as its looks the Business otherwise.

Its all character building, you still have a good month before the better weather comes in. Thats what im trying to say to myself (also having issues with a few winter upgrades :roll: )

Alan
"Chicks dig scars and I measure mine in feet"

Ford Fiesta Zetec \m/ - Get's me erse to work spec.
Caterham R500 - The grenade powered one.

User avatar
David
Posts: 1142
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Drying out the Duratec

Post by David » Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:13 pm

Gourlay83 wrote:Sorry to hear about the Gearbox, how the hell could Caterham miss that ???
Alan
I am beginning to realise that Caterham have quite primitive version control - it all seems to be in the heads of a few individuals. This could have been nipped in the bud at day one, but I now face the prospect of replacing the bellhousing and clutch release assemble with the CSR version – probably only to find it won’t fit in a S3 chassis. :evil:
Caterham - R400
Mini Cooper

Duratec in Detail
flickr
Youtube
facebook

User avatar
David
Posts: 1142
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Drying out the Duratec

Post by David » Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:45 am

OK, a few beers later, and the problem became clearer. The options are . . . .

Argue with Caterham for the next six months :evil:

Return to the wet sump :(

Swap it for the Raceline dry sump :?

Buy a CSR bellhousing :shock:

Drill through the flange :roll:

Make an adapter. 8-)

The car was bought to enjoy and so I don't want to spoil this with a dispute, so that's ruled out. Going back to the wet sump is the safety net, but didn't really want to waste all the time and effort so far. Swapping it for the Raceline dry sump is the legal fall back, but this too seemed a waste of time and effort. Buying a CSR bellhousing may be the best technical solution but would cost money and I was also worried that other problems may emerge. Drilling through the flange was soon ruled out when I measured the thickness – just 5mm and not enough to take the loads of a 10mm bolt. That left making an adapter. This appeals to me, partly for the challenge, but mainly because it provides a low cost solution without generating further problems.

Watch this space. :D
Caterham - R400
Mini Cooper

Duratec in Detail
flickr
Youtube
facebook

User avatar
Gourlay83
Posts: 1663
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:59 pm
Location: Aberdeen

Re: Drying out the Duratec

Post by Gourlay83 » Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:04 am

That sounds like the easiest solution, I wish I was that calm and collected.......

Alan
"Chicks dig scars and I measure mine in feet"

Ford Fiesta Zetec \m/ - Get's me erse to work spec.
Caterham R500 - The grenade powered one.

User avatar
David
Posts: 1142
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Drying out the Duratec

Post by David » Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:19 pm

With the decision made to make an adapter, the first task was to design it. The only prerequisite was that it must be backwardly compatible and be possible to make in-situ. Logic told me that any alterations must only be to the sump.

A machine shop solution would have been to machine the whole flange surface to allow a plate to be inserted that could pick up on the two existing holes. But, as one of the nicer features of the Titan sump (by comparison to Raceline) was the added stiffness in main bearing cap area, I was reluctant to cut material from where it wasn’t really necessary. Weight was also on my mind and, as the left side of the sump was essentially OK, the design progressed to the smallest feasible 10mm plate grafted into the right bolt position.

This what I ended up with:

Image
Click image for big version

There were some heart stopping moments cutting this back. The two lugs were left to provide a reference point for measuring the depth of the recess as it was ground flat. The holes were extended back to compensate for the loss of depth. The red colour is from my blood sweat and tears. :cry:

Image
Click image for big version

The plate was cut from 10mm steal plate. It was from a previous project and had suffered a little corrosion from being stored outside.

Image
Click image for big version

The left side simply required a new hole but I decided to drill through the top hole and manufacture a plate to spread the load. It is extended through the cooling fin.

Image


This should put me back on track and the only concern now is that the Titan/CSR sump is wider and I hope it will fit in the car . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . we’ll soon find out. :D
Caterham - R400
Mini Cooper

Duratec in Detail
flickr
Youtube
facebook

User avatar
David
Posts: 1142
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Drying out the Duratec

Post by David » Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:51 am

One thing that need to be checked was the thread I’d cut in the mild steel adapter plate. Ideally I wanted to torque them up to 47Nm so I did a destructive test on a bit of scrap using a 12.9 cap bolt. At 75 Nm there was a noticeable yield follow by failure at 105 Nm. It pulled the thread cleanly out :shock: . That’ll do the job :D .

Image
Click image for big version


A full set of bolts . . . . .

Image
Click image for big version


And the lump is ready to go back in . . . . .

Image
Click image for big version


Update on the roller barrels:

Two weeks later and Caterham are consulting the suppliers :popcorn .
Caterham - R400
Mini Cooper

Duratec in Detail
flickr
Youtube
facebook

User avatar
Ferg
Posts: 3966
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:56 pm
Location: Auld Reekie

Re: Drying out the Duratec

Post by Ferg » Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:42 pm

very ellegant solution, great work. 8)

User avatar
David
Posts: 1142
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Drying out the Duratec

Post by David » Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:16 pm

Well, the engine finally went back in during the week

Image
Click image for big version


Take a good look as this photo as it is the very last one my camera will ever take :cry: It just stopped working and, as it's a 10 year old digital camera, it is just not worth fixing. So the future posts may suffer a little on the picture front.

The last couple of days have been spent trying to sort out the plumbing. Of the five oil pipes I got from Caterham (3 with the kit and two replacements) only one came near to fitting any of the positions. I've kind of lost faith in Caterham's ability to sort this sort of thing out so I've ordered some Aeroquip hose and will remake them to the correct length.

Negotiations with Caterham resulted in the roller barrels going back on Friday, so hopefully I’ll get a matching set back by the end of the week. :D

Jobs still to do are modifying the harness and cutting the bonnet hole. All being well, I should have it running in the next couple of weeks. :drive
Caterham - R400
Mini Cooper

Duratec in Detail
flickr
Youtube
facebook

User avatar
tut
Barefoot Ninja
Posts: 22975
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 5:53 pm
Location: Tut End, Glen of Newmill

Re: Drying out the Duratec

Post by tut » Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:02 pm

Never ceases to amaze me the level of knowledge and projects that members get up to on here.

Also the way that problems are treated when they go tits up, which invariably they do. Always makes good reading, and encourages others to try.

tut

User avatar
David
Posts: 1142
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Drying out the Duratec

Post by David » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:42 am

This week has been a bit of a waiting game :( . The roller barrels haven't arrived from Caterham and, despite 'being in stock', the Aeroquip hose only arrived on Saturday. So really only one days work to report - and that was spent making up the hoses fitting them.


At £30 a shot you would expect the Aeroquip fittings to be good and they are nice. I salvaged them from the Caterham hoses that didn't fit ;)

Image
(photos are from my phone so small ones only I'm afraid)

All the external pipe work is low pressure so using the push-on fittings is not a problem. Gently warming the pipe and some rubber lubricant make them go together without too much trouble - but you do need strong hands.

Image

The full set ready to fit. I bought a -12 aluminum spanner as it seemed a shame to damage the alloy fittings with a sloppy adjustable. The spanner is a precision fit and made a bigger difference to the job than you might think.

Image

The cooler had to be raised 15mm to clear the bottom cross member as the radius of the fittings was greater than the old steel ones.

Image

The plumbing is tight . . . .

Image

. . . . . but overall I was pleased with the days work. Of interest in this picture is that the fittings are billet rather than extruded – apart from being even more expensive they are more compact and stronger. I guess Chaterham use them here as they are more exposed to the elements and flying debris.
Caterham - R400
Mini Cooper

Duratec in Detail
flickr
Youtube
facebook

User avatar
Mike Scib
Posts: 2995
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 5:04 pm

Re: Drying out the Duratec

Post by Mike Scib » Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:12 pm

David wrote:
Image
David, will you not have issues with the hoses rubbing?

Impressive project BTW :thumbsup
alicrozier wrote:As Robin said, need to be comfortable and confident to push right up to the limit - sometimes you only find the limit by going beyond it...
(that's why I think Mike will do fine, that and his lack of imagination). :roll: :lol:

User avatar
David
Posts: 1142
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Drying out the Duratec

Post by David » Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:50 pm

Mike Scib wrote:
David wrote:
Image
David, will you not have issues with the hoses rubbing?

Impressive project BTW :thumbsup
There's still a few cable ties needed but the original hoses were routed the same way - so hopefully there won't be any issues.

I did buy stainless steel braided hose but it was very abrasive and reading up on them it seems they can be more trouble than they are worth in anything other than extreme conditions. To be honest, the car has so much attention lavished on it that wear and tear isn't really a problem.

David
Caterham - R400
Mini Cooper

Duratec in Detail
flickr
Youtube
facebook

User avatar
David
Posts: 1142
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Drying out the Duratec

Post by David » Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:13 pm

Another week of waiting :( Caterham were unable to replace the barrels this week - the excuse seems to be that their supplier has some manufacturing difficulties :? Any way I've spent some time tidying up the electrics and coolant plumbing and today I fitted the racing master cylinder to reduce the 'long' pedal I was experiencing

Image

This increases the diameter from 3/4 to 13/16 inch an saves about 0.25 kg. If my maths is correct :oops: this is about a 20% increase in area/volume and therefore 20% more force to achieve the same braking effort. It'll be interesting to see how I get on with it. The racing cylinders are also shimmed to the reduced travel or 'dead zone' that the standard cylinders tend to have.

Fingers crossed I have the barrels next week :D
Caterham - R400
Mini Cooper

Duratec in Detail
flickr
Youtube
facebook

User avatar
David
Posts: 1142
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Drying out the Duratec

Post by David » Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:34 am

A bit of a 'non' post really :( . I'm still waiting for the replacement roller barrels from Caterham :cry:

I spent the week doing minor tasks like the wiring up of the DS tank temperature sensor, putting seats back, and servicing the breaks etc. But, the car is now essentially finished. Next post will be start up. :roll:
Caterham - R400
Mini Cooper

Duratec in Detail
flickr
Youtube
facebook

Post Reply