Sick 'K' needs help...

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offshorematt
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Post by offshorematt » Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:07 pm

Is the Fuel Pressure Regulator removeable on its own then? I thought it was an integral part of the fuel rail hence why I was looking to change the whole thing out...

Robin - that would be great if I could borrow your spare FPR, I'll pm my address to you. :thumbsup

And while I'm at it, is there any real benefit from fitting the Eliseparts Power Boost Valve Regulator above the standard Lotus part? Except to increase my fuel consumption of course...always thought they were more suited to Max Power Saxo's... :wink:

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tut
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Post by tut » Mon Nov 06, 2006 2:19 pm

Matt

No point in replacing the standard FPR on your car. Th Eliseparts Power Boost Valve Regulator at £94 is just an adjustable FPR with a range of between 3-4 bar, which is usually needed when you get above 190hp and have an Emerald.

tut

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robin
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Post by robin » Mon Nov 06, 2006 2:35 pm

Matt,

I might be able to remove the FPR with enough pipework to plumb into the return line so that you can just append it to your FPR for testing purposes ...

That way you can make sure it's a fix before bothering to replace the whole fuel rail (oh, and if you would rather have a whole manifold, fuel rail etc all fitted, I have mckean's one which has had the flashing removed by DVA so will add 0.05BHP over the rubbish one you have ;-)).

I'm sure he won't mind me passing it on to you.

Cheers,
Robin

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mckeann
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Post by mckeann » Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:00 pm

i charge by the horsepower, but i'm afraid i will have to round up in this instance :wink:

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offshorematt
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Post by offshorematt » Mon Nov 06, 2006 5:05 pm

It seems a shame to cut up a perfectly good fuel rail just for the regulator - can you lend me the whole thing? I can either run it in series (assuming it has injector's fitted) or just try fitting the complete assembly... reading the Service Notes, the manifold doesn't need to come off to get the rail out. Is this is a pig of a job?
mckeann wrote:i charge by the horsepower, but i'm afraid i will have to round up in this instance :wink:
Cheers for the offer but I don't think I could handle the extra power :wink:

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offshorematt
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Post by offshorematt » Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:03 pm

Dammit :(

Fitted Robin's complete fuel rail and injectors and it has made no difference - I guess there is a possibility that the FPR on this one has siezed while it was sitting in Robin's garage but pretty unlikely... The new modular fuel rail assembly arrives tomorrow so I may as well fit it having already paid for it but I don't expect it to make any difference.

I thought that maybe the pressure on the manifold side was too low (i.e vacuum) which would give the same effect as a faulty FPR but I disconnected the vacuum hose and it made no difference being under atmospheric pressure.

I could change the coil as that was the only other thing that I can think of (failing under load) but it still doesn't seem right. After that its electronic i.e ECU withholding spark when the rail is pressured but I can't for the life of me see what sensor failure would cause that

Anyone looking for a perfect Honda donor? :wink:

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Rich H
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Post by Rich H » Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:20 pm

Sounds excrutiatingly annoying...

What is left?...!
1994 Lotus Esprit S4 - Work in progress
1980 Porsche 924 Turbo - Funky Interior Spec
2004 Smart Roadster Coupe - Hers

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MacK
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Post by MacK » Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:51 pm

RICHARDHUMBLE wrote: What is left?...!

Image

:roll:
Green Subaru Impreza Turbo, a 'classic'.

Silver Jeep Cherokee 2.5 TD, on SORN spec...

Black Disco 3, black van man spec...

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robin
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Post by robin » Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:30 pm

OK,

Well it's time to go back to basics I think and do some conclusive tests to be sure we know what *is* happening.

(1) We know there is spark because you've run it with a loose plug in number 1 lead?

If not then we need to do this and I would do it with all leads and someone else observing. Now it is my belief that the ECU cannot run the ignition without seeing the correct crank position sensor pattern, so that should rule out CPS failure.

(2) We know there is fuel circulating because you've removed the return side and run it through a long hose into a bucket or can?

If not then I suggest you do that (without cranking - just the first few seconds of priming should be enough to demonstrate that the fuel pump and circuit is game).

If that's OK, run a longer test - keep cranking (you can remove spark plugs to reduce load on starter motor) and see whether the fuel return dries up after a while. This could be the case if you had a corroded connector in the engine harness connector blocks en route to the fuel pump. When cold it might allow enough current to prime the motor, but on continuous running the connector will heat up (there's a lot of current flowing and even a 1 ohm resistance will generate significant heat) and this heat causes the resistance to increase - vicious circle time until too much voltage is lost across the bad connection and the pump stalls. Leave it for a while to cool down and it starts to work again.

So if on average it runs for 20 seconds after catching, try cranking for a 30 seconds and make sure fuel is returned at full flow for that whole time.

I would disconnect each of the harness connectors anyway for a visual inspection - you need to track them all down - for the fuel pump there are :

Fuel Tank Harness Connector - I think this has four wires total - the two wires you care about are Black (ground) and Brown/Grey (live). I think this is the plug on top of the fuel pump under the access hatch behind the pax seat - good luck with that one!

Immob connector - need to drill off the rivets on security cover on the immob unit to access this one. The wire in and out of this will still be Brown/Grey.

Engine Harness Connector 1, pin 4. Still Brown/Grey.

Bottom of MFRU, connector 2, pin 1, Brown/Grey and connector 2, pin 4, White/Purple.

Engine Harness Connector 3, pin 2, White/Purple on both sides.

Inertia switch connector, White/Purple on one side, Purple on the fused live side.

10A fuse (number 17?) in the fuse panel.

Here are the harness locations if of use (your actual ECU might not be in the boot, depending on age of car, but harness positions move with the ECU).

Image
Image

(3) I assume it's not now backfiring (i.e. there's no way you've fixed the fuelling problem and introduced a firing order problem in the process).

(4) Although it's a no-no in normal running, have you tried to start the car on part throttle? I assume it will just splutter and die as before. I would also disconnect the TPS wiring and run it without a TPS (the ECU doesn't need the TPS to work and will just ignore it if not present). Opening the throttle manually will bypass any problem with the IACV not opening.

(5) Given it's now quite cold if the problem is that the coolant temperature sensor or inlet air temperature sensors are gubbed, it could make a significant difference. Disconnect the brown sensor at the water elbow and the green one on the intake manifold.

(6) Now that you have a spare fuel rail you could consider running your original fuel rail loose into a bed of paper towels and see just how much fuel gets squirted into it when cranking. Note that the ECU doesn't do fuelling in an obvious way on cranking - rather it just squirts now and then to avoid flooding the engine, so provided you get some fuel into the towels, I think you can be happy.

I'm guessing you can rule some of the above out because of other tests you've done already ... but worth thinking about it all again.

Cheers,
Robin

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roadboy
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Post by roadboy » Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:15 pm

Have you done a compression test?

Dan@JPS
SPS Automotive
Independent Lotus Specialists
http://www.spsautomotive.co.uk

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r10crw
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Post by r10crw » Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:54 am

Ive just started to look at this thread, and just wondered if the ecu has been ruled out. Matt youre welcome to borrow my ecu since im not using it anymore, its an emerald and im sure someone on here will have a map suitable for a standard car. Craig.

Ps. I think a standard ecu relys on the distributor for firing position and uses the cps for reference only. On the vvc, vhpd the cps was used since a waste spark system was employed.

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offshorematt
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Post by offshorematt » Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:32 pm

Appreciate all the input folks - I'll have a good read over and see what I can discount.

Dan - you mention a compression test (for potential HGF?). The engine runs okay when its gravity fed i.e no pressure on the fuel line - that and the lack of any discernible drop in fluids or mayo discounts that, I hope. Is there another factor here I'm not considering?

Cheers
Matt

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Rich H
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Post by Rich H » Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:23 pm

Comp test will check out the bores/pistons/rings for damage or wear, what you really need to test it properly is a leak down test which test for pressure loss in a cylinder but takes time adn costs $$$ a comp tester can be had from halfrauds (Gunsons compressin tester) and doesn't take long.

the other test would be a block test which tests for exhaust gasses in the coolant, Lawrence has my kit its a fluid that sniffs the gasses form the coolant. If the HG has gone across the fire ring this will show it.

Good luck!

Rich
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1980 Porsche 924 Turbo - Funky Interior Spec
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mac
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Post by mac » Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:23 pm

I've got it Rich :D

Lawrence already had one so we thought an East/West split be a good idea.

As for the leak down tester - there was one of those a while back too - Stu160 made it for someone if my memory serves me right


Mac
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Rich H
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Post by Rich H » Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:27 pm

Cool, happy as long as it's gone to a good home! :wink:
1994 Lotus Esprit S4 - Work in progress
1980 Porsche 924 Turbo - Funky Interior Spec
2004 Smart Roadster Coupe - Hers

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